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 2010-05-03, 23:20 #1 science_man_88     "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dumbassville 26·131 Posts possible climate change reducer ? I have thought of an idea that may help clear the air: 2 H2 + O2 -> 2 H2O 6 H2O + 6 CO2-> C6H12O6 + 6 O2 C6H12O6 + 6 CH4-> 6 C2H5OH C2H5OH + CH4 -> C3H8 + H2O This could be continued to reproduce the hydrogen needed to reproduce the water. Solar cells or some other energy source could be used to support the energy needed to do these reactions. with very little of the oxygen going to exhaust about 33% efficiency of an continued reaction could in theory produce near infinite fuel economy. my hard part is the building of it care to help ? Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2010-05-03 at 23:53
2010-05-04, 00:17   #2
Uncwilly
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by science_man_88 I have thought of an idea that may help clear the air:
As stated in a PM response to this:
Quote:
 Originally Posted by me Second, the chemistry to transform water and carbon dioxide into a sugar is not simple. It takes a large amount of energy, the reverse reaction is simple and highly exothermic. Third, to advocate for a solar powered car, you need to figure what the actual power that can fall on the surface of a car is. Then you have to figure the extra weight that they will add, etc. Solar power on a car is of limited use. Fourth, just because one can do the stoichiometry, does not mean that the reaction is workable or practical to tote around in a car. Also, the reactions like this will require power input. Fifth, "infinite fuel economy" is a major red flag. There is no free lunch.

Last fiddled with by Uncwilly on 2010-05-04 at 00:17

2010-05-04, 01:00   #3
ewmayer
2ω=0

Sep 2002
República de California

2·41·139 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by science_man_88 I have thought of an idea that may help clear the air: 2 H2 + O2 -> 2 H2O 6 H2O + 6 CO2-> C6H12O6 + 6 O2 C6H12O6 + 6 CH4-> 6 C2H5OH C2H5OH + CH4 -> C3H8 + H2O
That seems overly complicated ... why not eliminate all those expensive middleman reactions? Start with the biggest greenhouse gas, CO2, and simply run things in reverse:

CO2 -> C + O2

Naysayers may cry "no free lunch!", but the fact is,with high-efficiency catalysts and bioengineered microbes the human-guided reverse reaction can be run much more efficiently than the forward one. Like you point out, large-scale solar power would supply the energy, and theres a 2-for-1: channeling some solar energy into this CO2 removal program would also reduce the global warming input.

Now that weve got lots of CO2-harvested O2, we can put it to excellent use by removing methane, which is molecule-for-molecule a much more potent GG than CO2:

CH4 + O2 -> C + 2 H2O

All it takes is the political will to overcome the powerful dioxygen-carbide and methane lobbies in the corridors of power.

2010-05-04, 01:39   #4
Uncwilly
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by ewmayer CH4 + O2 -> C + 2 H2O All it takes is the political will to overcome the powerful dioxygen-carbide and methane lobbies in the corridors of power.
But, you are just swapping one greenhouse gas for another. Dihydrogen monoxide is a GHG. Get the facts man! http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
http://descy.50megs.com/descy/webcred/webcred/dhmo.html
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/dhmo.htm

 2010-05-04, 11:09 #5 Xitami   Apr 2010 168 Posts C2H5OH + CH4 -> C2H5OH + H2O ->
 2010-05-04, 11:34 #6 science_man_88     "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dumbassville 26·131 Posts Uncwilly I never said it should be simple! my idea would reuse some of the O2 and H2O to react out more and more the higher above 33% of it that it uses. if we could get near 100% in the steps that would reform water at all it would nearly triple the speed of the extraction of CO2 and Methane. if one gas got higher than the other then I'd make the necessary amount of the other in the form like combustion. Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2010-05-04 at 12:30
 2010-05-04, 15:05 #7 cheesehead     "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 1E0C16 Posts science_man_88, There are many possible chemical combinations for one to play with, but unless one shows that there is economic feasibility, none are going to be implemented. Show us the energy flows. The biggest, and zero-cost, climate change reducer is 0C + 0O2 => 0CO2 Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2010-05-04 at 15:07
 2010-05-04, 16:09 #8 science_man_88     "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dumbassville 26·131 Posts http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9144458AAFbTDC deals with the first reactions energy needs. I haven't found data for the rest of them. I knew I needed energy as I've put this on other forums a while back and told that , that's why I suggested a solar cell idea if used in a car. if not maybe if we can make it efficient enough we can make up in efficiency for the power used(and CO2 release).
2010-05-04, 16:19   #9
ewmayer
2ω=0

Sep 2002
República de California

2×41×139 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Uncwilly But, you are just swapping one greenhouse gas for another. Dihydrogen monoxide is a GHG. Get the facts man!
Yes, but a far less-potent and more-easily-condensed one, my big-picture-ignorant friend.

Also, I misspoke yesterday when I referred ti the "methane lobby" ... apparently they prefer the official name "carbon tetrahydride industry co-operative." My bad.

Last fiddled with by ewmayer on 2010-05-04 at 16:20

2010-05-04, 16:27   #10
science_man_88

"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

26·131 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ewmayer Yes, but a far less-potent and more-easily-condensed one, my big-picture-ignorant friend. Also, I misspoke yesterday when I referred ti the "methane lobby" ... apparently they prefer the official name "carbon tetrahydride industry co-operative." My bad.

your ideas work for a non-car idea as it turns our waste into fresh drinking water and heat energy to heat homes more economically. try it out lol.

and the carbon could be used with heat to try artificial diamonds make's it pay you lol.

oh I forgot Bucky balls, graphite , and carbon nanotubes.

Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2010-05-04 at 16:39

 2010-05-04, 16:52 #11 science_man_88     "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dumbassville 838410 Posts Fifth, "infinite fuel economy" is a major red flag. There is no free lunch. near infinite fuel economy best I could do for a red flag Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2010-05-04 at 16:52

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