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#1 | ||
∂2ω=0
Sep 2002
Repรบblica de California
5×2,351 Posts |
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In slightly off-topic other news, a little while ago Karl Denninger (one of the blogs I often cite in the Mystery Economic Theater thread in Soapbox) posted an article titled "FBI Outed Breaking Into The US Internet", and now his site appears to be experiencing 'technical difficulties'. Perhaps the FBI has managed to co-opt many of the "Anonymous" hacktivists to perform DDOS on its behalf in exchange for free Farmville credits and ChuckECheese play-money coins?
[an hour later] KD`s site is back up now, and here is the post mentioned above Quote:
Quote:
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#2 | |
Oct 2007
2×53 Posts |
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It appears one of the accused, Jason Wright, has already responded to the allegations:
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129244045916861&w=2 Quote:
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#3 |
"Mark"
Apr 2003
Between here and the
2×592 Posts |
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I understand how some "government organization" would be interested in doing such as thing, but the one thing that struck me was that the one organization that would have the manpower and skill to do this would be the CIA. The FBI is involved more in criminal investigations rather than spying. It doesn't strike me that they would be the ones to do this.
BTW, if there were such backdoors, I would expect hackers to have discovered them by now. |
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#4 |
Undefined
"The unspeakable one"
Jun 2006
My evil lair
2×13×257 Posts |
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Hackers will only discover things like this if there is incentive to find them. Once Windows has been relegated to 2nd place and BSD takes then we will start to see whether or not BSD is really secure or not. But not now, not yet, currently BSD is too small a target to warrant the hackers' time to investigate.
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#5 | |
Bamboozled!
"๐บ๐๐ท๐ท๐ญ"
May 2003
Down not across
2×3×29×67 Posts |
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Some security misfeatures will be discovered by chance; no incentive other than idle curiousity required. "BSD" is a family of operating systems which share various characteristics and a largely common licen{c,s}ing scheme. OpenBSD specializes in having very few exploitable security bugs. Other BSDs put more of their efforts elsewhere. MacOS is fundamentally BSD, for instance. Are you suggesting that hackers are not interested in finding holes in that distribution of BSD? If so, you need to get out more. Hackers are certainly interested in finding security holes in non-Windows operating systems. Many have been found in Linux distributions, BSD distributions, Solaris distributions, Symbian distributions and many other distributions over recent years and there is no indication visible to me to suggest that security holes will not continue to be searched for and found by hackers in the coming years. If I'm wrong, perhaps I ought to get out more. Paul |
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#6 | |
Undefined
"The unspeakable one"
Jun 2006
My evil lair
2·13·257 Posts |
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#7 | ||
Bamboozled!
"๐บ๐๐ท๐ท๐ญ"
May 2003
Down not across
2·3·29·67 Posts |
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Searching for security holes, at whatever level of interest, is undoubtedly a proper test of the real security level --- by definition. Finding a hole is undoubtedly a failure of the implementation to meet the security model --- also by definition. I also deduce that you have a different conception of "truth" from mine. Finally, you make an absolute statement: Quote:
Paul |
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#8 | |
Undefined
"The unspeakable one"
Jun 2006
My evil lair
11010000110102 Posts |
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Certainly bored hackers can have incentive, but in general a "few" hackers is not a real test of security (IMO). I will still claim that point. My definition of a secure system is not a proclamation by the software writers, but a demonstrated resistance to attacks by suitably motivated attackers. Right now it appears that BSD is secure enough for the current level of threat and the current level of usage (both low). But I was saying that once BSD moves up in popularity of usage then the threat model changes. And in that situation BSD may still prove to be secure, or not, time will tell. But I do not accept that it is secure simply because someone proclaims it to be designed to be secure. Ya gotta test it against real world threat models. |
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#9 | |
Jun 2003
116910 Posts |
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#10 | |
Jun 2003
116910 Posts |
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I agree that the latter, particularly those who develop NetBSD, would probably have found them by now. |
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#11 |
Jun 2003
The Texas Hill Country
32×112 Posts |
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I, too, think that this is a bunch of "conspiracy" BS.
Any true hidden backdoors are imbedded in things that are not "under public scrutiny". If Intel or some BIOS manufacturer has been "paid off" to intentionally place a "backdoor" in their hardware or boot_firmware, it might be difficult to detect. In a similar vein, compromising a particular compiler (for example, gcc) to insert "backdoor" code, independent of the source code submitted, is hard to imagine and sustain. Even if some trojan were introduced, it is questionable that it could lie totally hidden, without any "sleeper cell" tripping some alarm on un-compromised networks. So, if you believe that the code "does what it says it does", and flaws are "in plain sight". (That does not imply that they are easy to recognize, but that, with proper diligence, they can be found), how can you believe that the FBI has โฆโฆโฆ ? Over decades, the various *BSD communities have addressed various aspects of the overall OS realm. However, it is important to note that they all have been happy to adopt the "best work" from the various branches. Thus, FreeBSD, Darwin (MacOSX), etc. groups have all accepted to corrections found by the OpenBSD, et. al. folks. In the last decade, most of the "security alerts" are due to the discovery of cases where a function MIGHT be caused to over-write an area beyond that which the programmer intended. In particular, strings which might be longer than anticipated, can, by the use of functions that "assume unverifiable characteristics" of their inputs be made to over-write other parameters. This, in itself, does not mean that the code can be compromised. Most "possible loopholes" get closed before anyone has the opportunity to determine if it is possible to present an exploitable input. Fortunately, the opportunity to exploit this behavior also is tied, very closely, to a particular "system/compiler/ordering of the source code." An exploit that works in one configuration is likely to fail in another. I'm more concerned that "the drug cartels" are taking control of the physical territory, and that my "US$" assets are rapidly becoming worthless because of the impending inflation. |
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