20140315, 04:00  #1 
Jun 2010
Pennsylvania
2·467 Posts 
GIMPS and bitcoin
GIMPS recently got a little plug in a totally unrelated forum.
Aside from that, how about the idea of awarding bitcoin for finding a Mersenne prime? (Assuming that the digital currency concept doesn't collapse as a result of bitcoin's recent troubles.) It would somehow be fitting to award bits for processing bits. TBH, though, I'm not sure that in the end I wouldn't rather have cold, hard cash (OK, a check) in my hands. Rodrigo 
20140315, 15:28  #2 
Jun 2012
2·53 Posts 
The problem with BTC is that the value changes significantly from day to day. The currency has been so volatile that it is impractical for use as a reward.

20140315, 18:00  #3 
May 2013
East. Always East.
11×157 Posts 
There was a fullon discussion of MersenneCoin not too long ago.
In summary, the value is way too volatile, and awarding it would be even harder. Any award would have to be doublechecked before handing it out. Maybe factors found would award coins but that would only create a feeding frenzy for the 100M1000M TF range and wouldn't provide any meaningful, useful work. 
20140315, 18:22  #4  
"Kieren"
Jul 2011
In My Own Galaxy!
2×3×1,693 Posts 
No! No! Put down that [STRIKE]pickle![/STRIKE] ...er, bitcoin!
Quote:


20140315, 23:28  #5 
Aug 2010
Kansas
547_{10} Posts 

20140315, 23:46  #6  
Account Deleted
"Tim Sorbera"
Aug 2006
San Antonio, TX USA
1000010101011_{2} Posts 
Quote:
Quote:
There's another problem with using Mersenne factors as a proofofwork: typical proofofwork requires that you have new work for each block, so that you can't e.g. find 10 factors beforehand, and then release 10 blocks at once based on those factors. You'd have to have a way to give limit it appropriately or use a different block generation scheme while still giving coins for factors. Last fiddled with by MiniGeek on 20140316 at 00:03 

20140316, 00:10  #7 
"Kieren"
Jul 2011
In My Own Galaxy!
2·3·1,693 Posts 
On attaching ecoin schemes to GIMPS

20140316, 05:59  #8  
May 2013
East. Always East.
11×157 Posts 
Quote:
As it stands, we're all a bunch of volunteers. The only thing I like more than this project is what it represents: distributed computing. That's why I spent $250 on a GTX 660 Ti when I didn't need to. It has rendered maybe 30 minutes of 3D graphics and maybe an hour of desktop over the last eight months because it was bought for the express purpose of trial factoring for GIMPS. And I don't regret that decision. That's my personal contribution to the project. The monetary gains notion will change the environment, definitely. For better or worse. There's no way to tell. Quote:
The long story is you can only give credit for doublecheckable work. You can't credit "No Factor" work because it's obscenely easy to fake. You can credit "Factor Found" but it creates an incentive to work on the lowest available bits. Is a 550M factor found valuable in the long (long long long long) run? Yes. Is it valuable now? No. We're short on trial factoring power at the wavefront as it is. Moving it over to more lucrative lands is not helpful. I see trial factoring as a way to remove LL candidates. In my eyes, primeornot is the meaningful work, not "No factor for M8xx,xxx,xxx from 2^{66} to 2^{67}". Quote:
Again, this comes back to the definition of the project. Yes, finding all factors has some finite mathematical value but the point of the project is to find mersenne primes. No amount of trial factoring achieves that, so why reward it? 

20140316, 08:58  #9 
"Brian"
Jul 2007
The Netherlands
7·467 Posts 
This sort of discussion always makes me want to laugh nervously, but I feel like I'd better not because everyone else is being so serious. It's better just to admire the emperor's new clothes like everyone else around us, listen to the erudite opinions on which parts of the finery are the most important (yes, of course. his gorgeous hat and his perfect shoes have some finite value, but it's his beautiful flowing robe which is the whole point). And just ignore and pretend we can't see the rather large ... um.... elephant in the room.
Participation in GIMPS is actually quite a good model for life itself, I think. The whole project is wondrous, remarkable and brilliant in its conception, and a lot of fun to be involved in if you're able to make that from it. But questions about its ultimate point don't really lead to any satisfactory answer. 
20140316, 23:41  #10 
Jun 2012
2×53 Posts 
The solution to TF is create a formula for the amount of coins you're going to give for the tasks. Ideally, to avoid any fake results, you would need to only award coins for any factors found.
I propose we use the formula ...where and For the sake of clarity, G_{trial} is the GHzd/d value w.r.t. trial division for the user. P is the average GHzd/d value for all users. My reasoning for the (complicated?) formulae is that this gives a fair representation of the value of the factors found, and the effort/energy exerted to find them. Those with larger firepower will see more coins/factor at the same bitlevel as the "small fry" though, which is a problem. Maybe I should apply a (small?) penalty if G_{trial} / P is more than a standard deviation away... or would this balance out fairly as the "difficulty" introduced by a higher TFLOPS level for the entire project? The other problem is that if I were to account for this, I would need to know the TFLOPS distribution across the data range (which is an issue), considering that I highly doubt the data follows a normal distribution (and as such a standard deviation would be inappropriate). I shall leave you guys to figure that out (statistics & algorithms are not my thing). 
20140317, 02:01  #11 
May 2013
East. Always East.
11×157 Posts 
Alternatively, coins can be handed out solely on work issued by the server.

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