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Old 2020-05-22, 13:50   #1574
Uncwilly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Non sequitur.

The question was about the outlay, not the ownership.
Outlay by whom? If I don't maintain my triplex that I let out. And if someone else builds a 40 storey apartment block the next street over. And I lose my tenants to that, it makes no difference that the apartment block cost much more that the deferred maintenance. If a competitor builds a more attractive option, your customers will leave.
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Old 2020-05-22, 16:41   #1575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Outlay by whom? If I don't maintain my triplex that I let out. And if someone else builds a 40 storey apartment block the next street over. And I lose my tenants to that, it makes no difference that the apartment block cost much more that the deferred maintenance. If a competitor builds a more attractive option, your customers will leave.
My question had nothing to do with attractiveness either. It was purely about the monetary cost.

Last fiddled with by xilman on 2020-05-22 at 16:41
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Old 2020-05-22, 19:18   #1576
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My question had nothing to do with attractiveness either. It was purely about the monetary cost.
Please show me where you asked a question?
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Old 2020-05-22, 20:09   #1577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Please show me where you asked a question?
Paul is doing fine by my lights. I initially asked the question. xilman asked what I asked. Consider him deputized.
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Old 2020-05-22, 22:01   #1578
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Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Can we compare the outlay which might have been required for the transit system to be rehabbed and enhanced; with the costs of building freeways?
Feel free. I have no interest in doing the deeeeep dive needed to estimate the funds needed to "rehab and enhance" any given MT system. There are too many items. How enhanced? Are any lines going to be eliminated? Wages, operational frequency, etc. Are you dealing with the steel wheel only, or also the rubber tyre system?
Maintenance costs? for how long?

And the build of the "freeway system", to what stage and for how far from a metro center? If you only want until 1960 and only to the areas served by the former MT system, that would be much different than the system by 1995 and to the then current safety standards.
Do you want to include projects that have added lanes in the 2000's?

I am not prepared to invest that kind of time. And I am not saying that it was a wise thing that happened. Rather that it was not the simple "Big Bad GM with evil in their heart destroyed an ideal system loved by all."

You may note that I have constantly advocated for electric rail systems.

Last fiddled with by Uncwilly on 2020-05-22 at 22:02
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Old 2020-05-22, 23:08   #1579
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You may note that I have constantly advocated for electric rail systems.
Granted.
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Old 2020-05-23, 05:11   #1580
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IMO, questioning the decisions of GM or the LA/CA government is a bit unfair. At that time climate change was not on the radar. We have plenty of present day bad actors that deserve our scorn who knowingly sacrifice the planet for a few dollars in their pockets.
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Old 2020-05-23, 12:42   #1581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Please show me where you asked a question?
Paul is doing fine by my lights. I initially asked the question. xilman asked what I asked. Consider him deputized.
Let's see here... Ahh, there it is!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Can we compare the outlay which might have been required for the transit system to be rehabbed and enhanced; with the costs of building freeways?
Throw in the maintenance costs and you might have a reasonable basis for comparing the raw numbers. Of course, you might want to qualify the comparison if one type of project is locally funded, and the other type gets a lot of state and federal funds.

As a Chicagoan, you may appreciate: In 2006, the cost of rebuilding the Dan Ryan Expressway rose from an estimated 550 million to over a billion dollars, as described here.

Often called the Dn Ryan Expressway...

BTW the CTA's budget is at least a billion dollars a year.
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Old 2020-05-23, 17:37   #1582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Let's see here... Ahh, there it is!
That was not Paul. kladner =/= xilman

Last fiddled with by Uncwilly on 2020-05-28 at 18:14 Reason: You may never know
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Old 2020-05-23, 22:27   #1583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Let's see here... Ahh, there it is!

Throw in the maintenance costs and you might have a reasonable basis for comparing the raw numbers. Of course, you might want to qualify the comparison if one type of project is locally funded, and the other type gets a lot of state and federal funds.

As a Chicagoan, you may appreciate: In 2006, the cost of rebuilding the Dan Ryan Expressway rose from an estimated 550 million to over a billion dollars, as described here.

Often called the Dn Ryan Expressway...**

BTW the CTA's budget is at least a billion dollars a year.
** ...and other much less savory things, referencing the CHA projects along the east side. Stuff such as I heard from a friend's South suburban family, though decades ago, now. I suspect such ugliness is still rife.


I would consider the CTA to be the better expenditure, though, of course, once it is there, you have to maintain it whether it is an expressway, an el/subway system, or the bus network. This leaves out commuter rail and suburban buses, which are RTA, unless they've re-imaged themselves again. Note the CTA is part of RTA. Regional Transportation Authority. Chicago Transit Authority.
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Old 2020-05-27, 03:41   #1584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddball View Post
Just read this on the news today:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/28...-rights-fight/


Get ready for a heat wave, folks. Me and my buddies are getting lots of steak at Outback tonight.
I came across this post while searching for something else, but it's nice to see a fellow carnivore in here.

Remember, having lunch is optional, but having meat for lunch is mandatory.
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