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Old 2016-06-22, 10:31   #34
xilman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0PolarBearsHere View Post
Off topic a bit:
Do you think an independence referendum would pass after a Brexit? One of the arguments I saw was that if the Scots split off, they would no longer be part of the Eurozone, and would not qualify to join it post-split. If they leave the Eurozone anyway, it removes that particular reason for staying attached to countries with incorrectly numbered monarchs.
You've got it bass-ackward. Admittedly the terminology can be confusing.

The UK is not part of the Eurozone, its currency is the GBP and not the EUR. The UK is part of the EU --- European Union. Scotland is part of the UK and therefore not part of the Eurozone.

It's not clear what would happen if the UK left the EU and Scotland subsequently applied to join the EU. I believe that all new arrivals will be required to join the Eurozone eventually so Scotland would presumably find itself in that position should its application be approved. The UK, and a few other states such as Sweden, gained an opt-out from having to commit to joining the Eurozone though they are, of course, free to choose to join if they wish.

Last fiddled with by xilman on 2016-06-22 at 10:32 Reason: Fix spill-chucker induced tyop
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Old 2016-06-22, 12:24   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
You've got it bass-ackward. Admittedly the terminology can be confusing.

The UK is not part of the Eurozone, its currency is the GBP and not the EUR. The UK is part of the EU --- European Union. Scotland is part of the UK and therefore not part of the Eurozone.
Mea culpa on the terminology. I didn't realise that the Eurozone and EU were separate terms. I knew that the UK got an exemption on the currency that they wouldn't get it a second time.
I wasn't so much interested in whether Scotland would apply to become a member of the EU, but rather, would a Scotland that has no EU-membership status via the UK, be more likely to leave the UK if another referendum were held.

Last fiddled with by 0PolarBearsHere on 2016-06-22 at 12:25
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Old 2016-06-22, 14:52   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
The UK, and a few other states such as Sweden, gained an opt-out from having to commit to joining the Eurozone...
technical clearification: Unlike UK or Denmark, Sweden did not negotiate an
opt-out. Sweden is obliged to introduce the Euro once it meets the preconditions.
After a referendum voting against the Euro, sort of a loophole is used: by not
joining ERM II (European Exchange Rate Mechanism) Sweden decided to fail a
precondition on purpose, keeping the Krona.
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Old 2016-06-22, 16:55   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J F View Post
technical clearification: Unlike UK or Denmark, Sweden did not negotiate an
opt-out. Sweden is obliged to introduce the Euro once it meets the preconditions.
After a referendum voting against the Euro, sort of a loophole is used: by not
joining ERM II (European Exchange Rate Mechanism) Sweden decided to fail a
precondition on purpose, keeping the Krona.
Thank you. I misremembered the Danish/Swedish distinction.

The final result is the same, of course.
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Old 2016-06-22, 17:15   #38
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Compare and contrast:

"The UK applies a 5% reduced rate of VAT to the supply of sanitary products. This is the lowest rate possible under EU VAT law."

At the state level, New York senators recently voted to get rid of sales tax on pads and tampons so New York is set to join five other US states which do not tax sanitary products as luxury items (there are five other states which do not levy sales tax at all).

Just one of a myriad of bureaucratic impositions from the EU which support the Brexit argument.

Why does a common market require that all member states must charge sales tax at a specific minimum rate of 5% on such items? It's hardly that, say, Bulgarian companies are at a competitive disadvantage in the UK against, say, Belgian or British companies because of a tax which all or no suppliers are required to pay in the UK market, regardless of the tax regime in Bulgaria or Belgium.
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Old 2016-06-22, 19:55   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Why does a common market require that all member states must charge sales tax at a specific minimum rate of 5% on such items? It's hardly that, say, Bulgarian companies are at a competitive disadvantage in the UK against, say, Belgian or British companies because of a tax which all or no suppliers are required to pay in the UK market, regardless of the tax regime in Bulgaria or Belgium.
Same VAT rate everywhere in the EU is not neccessary for a common market to
work, but in theory it COULD simplify things. Trying to harmonize it was
justified with things like transparency, harder to fraud cross border, less
bureaucracy for cross border sales with pre-tax deduction (correct term?)...
Seems like the classic 'good intention, terrible implementation', ending
with just minimum rates 5%/15% instead of 'same for everything everywhere'.
Tons of exeptions, transitional rules that never became un-temporary, more
exeptions and temporary rules on top...
Et Voila! A nice new EU bureaucracy monster is born.

IMO that's one major flaw in the current EU system: 'They' do not leave things
alone unless the nations can agree to a GOOD solution for whatever, and can
implement it EU-wide without exeptions and with blessing from the residents.
The usual outcome is weird minimal compromises, no one really happy with them,
with holes (emissions trading? Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich?) and with
the promise (or threat?) to refine it sometime later.

Last fiddled with by J F on 2016-06-22 at 19:56
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Old 2016-06-23, 19:56   #40
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I believe, there is no Brexit. "50.+" percent for no...the elite do not like a Brexit. Ever and ever a manipulation. My opinion.

Last fiddled with by Cybertronic on 2016-06-23 at 19:58
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Old 2016-06-23, 23:57   #41
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So results are starting to come in.
http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
Sunderland wants out, others so far want to remain, but some are a lot tighter than expected.
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Old 2016-06-24, 01:05   #42
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Is this the most consequential vote ever put on a UK referendum?

(I'm ignorant of the scale and consequences of other territory votes and intend no disrespect)
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Old 2016-06-24, 01:20   #43
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I only heard of the referendum on "Last Week Tonight" hosted by John Oliver and he was quite passionate about having Britain remain within the EU. There were some interesting points made.
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Old 2016-06-24, 03:46   #44
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04:46 here; broad daylight this close to the arctic circle and this close to the summer solstice. I'm still up, watching the results as they come in. The main reason for not being in bed hours ago is that I arrived home at ~3am, having flown in from vacation well after midnight.

ATM, it's about 51.6% Brexit and the Beeb have already predicted that the UK will vote to leave the EU.

Last fiddled with by xilman on 2016-06-24 at 03:47
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