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Old 2002-10-13, 01:35   #12
QuintLeo
 
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> 1) Rackmount case Can we settle on a 2U-4U rackmount box? Are there additional hosting charges for a 4U box? If so, please specify.

Most of the co-hosting places I've seen pricing for charge in part for case size - PER "u" unit. This is one reason 1u setups are getting common in recent years.

> 2) CPU There are two main options for the CPUs Dual Xeon or Dual Athlon MP [ or if cost is a concern Dual PIII, now up to 1.4GHz; but note that the PIII 1.4 ~ P4 2.4 cost].

Dual Xenon would be a LOT more expen$ive for little to no more performance. From the sounds of it, dual P-IIIs would be enough for quite a while - but the dual Athlon solution looks to have more "room to expand" inexpen$ively, and starts out fairly-close on cost.

> How do you plain to do IDE RAID 5?

If the OS used is LINUX, RAID5 can be implimented in software. Ditto RAID 0 or RAID 1.
I'm using software RAID 0 on my file server - no special hardware needed.

> Is RH Linux the OS of choice?

Not for me - I'm a LONGtime Slackware person - but whoever is actually running the thing should have the primary input.

9-)
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Old 2002-10-13, 02:18   #13
Prime95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angular
George, are you concerned about HD speed given your DB background? Any concerns about the new server having roughly the same speed storage subsystem speed or lower?
I have a database programming background, not a database admin.

In either event, one would hope 1GB of RAM would keep the majority of data in RAM so that disk speed would not be critical. If disk speed becomes important we can always add more disks. Certainly, the server will log all transactions as well as maintain databases. Just putting the logs on one disk and the database on another would reduce our disk speed requirements.

While this is a great thread, do we have the cart before the horse? Don't we want to spec our needs, design the database, then write and test the server code on an ordinary machine first? Then we'll need to write test clients that pummel the server with requests and we'll see what its memory requirements are. By then its mid-2003 and our dual Athlon unit will be half the price.
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Old 2002-10-13, 02:25   #14
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Even though I did say this might be putting the cart before the horse, a week ago I looked into sample prices. At http://www.racksaver.com/products/RS1100Matrix.asp they had a 1U dual AMD XP SCSI system for $1800. At that price, I don't think purchasing the server will be our problem.
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Old 2002-10-13, 05:41   #15
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Unfortunately, that listed price of $1800 is only for the basic model. While they say it is SCSI, that means it supports SCSI. The listed price includes only a 40 GB IDE drive. I customized it to what we have been discussing (2 36GB SCSI drives, 1 GB RAM) and the price came out to $2848.

There are two reasons I would think it would be better to build ourselves. First of all, the retailers usually heavily mark-up the prices of the things we are hoping to get a lot of (RAM and HD). For example, Angular listed the price of a 160 GB SCSI hard drive for $160, but rackspace.com sells them (in their systems) for $399! It would also be easier to upgrade in the future (if we discover we need more RAM in the server to support the DB) if we built the server (especially if it wasn't in a 1U case).

Andrew
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Old 2002-10-13, 09:08   #16
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are we looking to buy all new stuff

im sure we could russle up some parts

like a few spare nics ( to have on hand incase of one failing)

ram might be another thing we could scronge together


the hdd's should be bought new so they match for the raid

but i remember hearing some where that they only offer 1 year warrentys now instead of 3

dont know the if its true or not
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Old 2002-10-13, 23:09   #17
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Since I am in need of a hosting solution for a school, I have been doing a lot of research. The bandwidth requirements that George gave for the server are very low (George can you doublecheck that this is everything, including serving all web pages and not just the client communication bandwidth, 58MB per day to serve all those reports seems low). It doesn't even appear that the CPU requirements are all that high. George says that at present the reports consume several minutes of 100% CPU, and presumably that is once an hour. The box is currently a dual P3 with 256 megs of memory. It doesn't strike me that the server is really overloaded with this configuration, so I question pumping money into more CPU than is really needed (more memory would be good though). There are a lot of inefficiencies in the current setup that could be wrung out. I noticed that after George added the 79M exponents to PrimeNet, the running time for the summary report went from just over five minutes to over 15. There is definitely some inefficiency there that would likely be easily solved by better database coding.

Given the operating requirements, it doesn't strike me that buying a box and colocating it is the best choice. Even buying one and colocating it for free is questionable. GIMPS needs at most about $30 a month in resources. Buying a $3,000 server instead of being able to pay for 100 months (over 8 years) of service without having to worry about hardware failures isn't a sound decision. I would host GIMPS for free at the drop of a hat if I had a box with the reliability and backup needed. There has got to be a way to piggyback or share with others, otherwise the project is going to be paying for way more than it needs.

Hmm, the Assigned Exponents Report runs several megs all by itself. 58 meg a day can't be the full bandwidth requirements. We need more info.
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Old 2002-10-15, 02:05   #18
Prime95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adpowers
As for hosting at a university, maybe we could see if curtisc (the highest ranked user on Prime95) would be willing to host it. He is located at Central Missouri State University
Curtisc is willing to host the GIMPS server. I've told him we are still in the early planning stages, so nothing is going to happen right away.

He will need to know what the University would have to provide (bandwidth requirements, a fixed IP address?, reboots?, router support in case of DOS attacks?, etc).

We need to decide if the savings are worth it. A colocation agreement would give us better UPS, support in case of a hardware failure, automatic system backups and restores?, etc.)

No rush on making a decision. Though, I'm sure I've missed some pros and cons that we can debate now.
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Old 2002-10-15, 03:31   #19
QuintLeo
 
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Fixed IP address is a given. Trying to run a Net Server without one is not practical for a large project.
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Old 2002-10-15, 06:09   #20
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would getting a new server affect older clients abllity to send & receive WU's

i have a lot of sleeper computers that i no longer have access to but are still running prime

would entropia provide some sort of forwarding services?
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Old 2002-10-15, 06:09   #21
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How many DOS attacks to you currently get? I know it's pathetic that so many companies and organizations get them as they normally accomplish nothing but a little headache for the admins, but a project like GIMPS isn't likely to piss off TOO many people...
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Old 2002-10-15, 10:46   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime95
Quote:
Originally Posted by adpowers
As for hosting at a university, maybe we could see if curtisc (the highest ranked user on Prime95) would be willing to host it. He is located at Central Missouri State University
Curtisc is willing to host the GIMPS server. I've told him we are still in the early planning stages, so nothing is going to happen right away.

He will need to know what the University would have to provide (bandwidth requirements, a fixed IP address?, reboots?, router support in case of DOS attacks?, etc).

We need to decide if the savings are worth it. A colocation agreement would give us better UPS, support in case of a hardware failure, automatic system backups and restores?, etc.)

No rush on making a decision. Though, I'm sure I've missed some pros and cons that we can debate now.
If he is willing to host the site, then I think we should accept the offer. I believe we could not get a better place and a more dedicated person to take care of it. If we accept the offer with a slightly lower level of service, we can then invest more in the server(s) themselves to compensate for that.

Alf
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