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Old 2013-06-05, 18:37   #23
cheesehead
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-E View Post
What you believe, or rather what you don't believe, remains an issue for whether or not you are welcome in the Boy Scouts.
http://www.newsmax.com/US/boy-scouts...6/01/id/507471
During my membership in Boy Scouts, I was keeping my atheism covert from everyone, including the church that hosted our troop.
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Old 2013-06-06, 13:27   #24
tha
 
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I've been a cubscout, boyscout, explorer and leader since age seven and still support my group in every possible way. I am also an open atheist and that is perfectly legal in my country and scout organization. But then, I live in The Netherlands, where the last time the pope visited the country he was kicked out by the catholic part of the population.

Scouting is inclusive in every possible way, in its origin and all the throughout the last 102 years. With the notable exeption of the BSA in the past few years when some churches hijacked the organization and imposed their own narrow views which sharply contradict the Scouting values.

Would I ever move to the US I would feel forced to join the GSUSA instead. Happily I've always been in a coed group, so that switch wouldn't be to big.
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Old 2013-06-09, 09:12   #25
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Scouting and the church is supposed to be inclusive, rather than exclusive. So, while I agree with preventing atheists, agnostics and gays from being leaders in these organizations(and even that would depend on how and what they wanted to lead) I am 100% against refusing entry as a member, except in cases where someone is a rabble-rouser.

For instance, I would be happy to have Brian-E next to me in church, even with his partner there. But if they started having a make out session, that would be over the line. Of course, that would be offensive even with a hetero-sexual couple.

And then you have things like hand-holding, which is a regional thing when it comes to acceptability. I've heard some Asian guys hold hands in crowded situations to avoid the other getting lost. So this could be non-sexual even if people get offended. Same thing with casual kisses on the lips, it's a cultural thing.

According to the Bible, sin is a spiritual thing, rather than a physical thing. The physical world simply exists. Sin is real, but it can't infect physical matter. For instance I can murder someone with a gun, or I can accidentally shoot them with the same gun. The actions are fundamentally equal, it's the spiritual aspect that determines if it's murder.

Sorry if this seems off-topic. I feel like I'm a missionary here, and since it's a forum of intellectuals, I'm trying to be rigorously logical with the tenets of Christianity. To me, Christianity has a fundamental theoretical base that supports everything else and allows moral decisions to be made when the circumstances muddy the waters.
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Old 2013-06-16, 16:35   #26
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Two scout leaders in Utah are being severely reprimanded by the Boy Scouts of America for attending the Utah Pride Parade. The BSA maintains that their taking part is politically based (Scout leaders are forbidden to promote any political agenda) and they refer to the "gay agenda" in this context. The scout leaders themselves say that the event was a cultural one and their attendance was just what they and other members of the scouting community do all the time at other cultural events.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56...e-bsa.html.csp
To my way of thinking, Pride events are most definitely cultural and are a vital part of any community, with a view to being inclusive to everyone whatever their background and identity. The BSA seems to have lost sight of the values which Scouting itself is supposed to embrace if you ask me.
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Old 2013-06-19, 17:54   #27
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Here's some positive news (well, I think it's positive) from the UK concerning the Girl Guides there.
http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/20...romise-for-all
Quote:
The National Secular Society has welcomed news that The Guide Association is to update its Promise to emphasise that guiding is open to all girls.
The updated Promise will ask members to 'be true to myself and develop my beliefs'. This will replace the previous phrase 'to love my God'.
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Old 2013-06-19, 19:06   #28
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-E View Post
Here's some positive news (well, I think it's positive) from the UK concerning the Girl Guides there.
That's an important, and welcomed, step.

Edit: IMO.

Last fiddled with by chalsall on 2013-06-19 at 19:07
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Old 2013-06-19, 22:33   #29
kladner
 
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Sounds mighty inclusive to me! Must be a Godless Commie Plot!
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Old 2013-06-19, 23:16   #30
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Sounds mighty inclusive to me! Must be a Godless Commie Plot!
The King is dead! Long live the King!
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Old 2014-04-30, 10:24   #31
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It seems that a potential scouting leader's joyful announcement (on Facebook) that he is in a relationship, leading to being inadvertently "outed" as gay, was cause to deny him his coveted position in the Boy Scouts of America.

Can anyone justify, or even merely explain, this thinking to me?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boy-scout-accidentally-outed-gay-facebook-denied-coveted-job-article-1.1773141?
Quote:
Garrett Bryant, 19, was looking forward to a leadership position in Arizona when he was told last month that he was being turned down because of his sexuality.
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Old 2014-04-30, 12:06   #32
kladner
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-E View Post
It seems that a potential scouting leader's joyful announcement (on Facebook) that he is in a relationship, leading to being inadvertently "outed" as gay, was cause to deny him his coveted position in the Boy Scouts of America.

Can anyone justify, or even merely explain, this thinking to me?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boy-scout-accidentally-outed-gay-facebook-denied-coveted-job-article-1.1773141?
Justification, as in "being just", is in short supply here. I certainly can't come up with any.

As to explanation, The Scouts leaders are mired in backward and troglodytic thinking which equates being gay with child molestation. Further, they are probably clinging to the antiquated notion that just being around someone who is gay, and a role model, is contagious, especially for youths who are still in a "malleable" phase of development. This is only a hop, skip, and a jump away from belief in "curing" gayness; i.e., that preventive isolation can somehow keep a boy from being what he is.

Then, too, I expect that there are some serious closet cases in the upper echelon of Scouting who are painfully aware of Baden-Powell's obvious orientation. These have to maintain the wall of denial and consequently project their own repressed feelings onto others.
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Old 2014-04-30, 14:34   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Then, too, I expect that there are some serious closet cases in the upper echelon of Scouting who are painfully aware of Baden-Powell's obvious orientation. These have to maintain the wall of denial and consequently project their own repressed feelings onto others.
B-P set up the Boy Scouts in the UK. For many years the organization's magazine was titled "Scouting for Boys" ...
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