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Old 2016-11-04, 02:19   #1
MooMoo2
 
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Default Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 11 discussion

The most popular move on the move 10 poll was ...gxf6. Stockfish played 11. Nd5, and the FEN is:
r1bqkb1r/5p1p/p1np1p2/1p1Np3/4P3/N7/PPP2PPP/R2QKB1R b KQkq - 1 11

Game so far: 1.e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5 a6 9. Na3 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5

Depth: 51 ply. Nodes searched: 1,059,887,583,011 (~1060 G)
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Old 2016-11-04, 13:00   #2
WMHalsdorf
 
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Currently leaning to 11...f5 12.Bd3 Be6 with the possible follow up of Bg7 then O-O haven't looked at 11...Bg7 as yet.
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Old 2016-11-08, 08:39   #3
LaurV
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Not much to discuss, pawn or bishop, they are kinda equal, as the discussion for move 10 shown. It is only a matter of taste now. I still like f5 first here.
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Old 2016-11-09, 07:19   #4
gd_barnes
 
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I like some of the positions and win percentages that we get in the opening DB for Bg7 so I will go with that.

Last fiddled with by gd_barnes on 2016-11-09 at 07:20
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Old 2016-11-09, 19:14   #5
henryzz
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My database favours f5.
I think I prefer f5. We can do Bg7 after f5 just fine. In fact this often happens. It is a little harder doing f5 after Bg7 due to the move Bd3.

I should point out that my database only has games since 2000 in it. If your database has older games and more games with Bg7, Gary, then it may be that Bg7 has fallen out of favour.

Last fiddled with by henryzz on 2016-11-09 at 19:16
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Old 2016-11-09, 23:35   #6
gd_barnes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryzz View Post
My database favours f5.
I think I prefer f5. We can do Bg7 after f5 just fine. In fact this often happens. It is a little harder doing f5 after Bg7 due to the move Bd3.

I should point out that my database only has games since 2000 in it. If your database has older games and more games with Bg7, Gary, then it may be that Bg7 has fallen out of favour.
My DB also has f5 as most frequently played (889 games) but Bg7 is also played a lot (492 games).

There are plenty of recent games with 11...Bg7 in the DB. Furthering your analysis I think that 11...Bg7 12. Bd3 Ne7 13. Nxe7 Qxe7 is good for black. Black wins nearly as frequently as white in this variation. That would be a great situation for us.

11...Bg7 does not appear to be out of favor. So we need not fear not advancing the f6 pawn right away.

That said, white has a better try...11...Bg7 12. c3 f5 (we get that f5 move in here) 13. exf5 Bxf5 14. Nc2. Here white is winning 33% and black is winning 30% with the rest draws. That's pretty decent at this point.

These are the lines I was thinking of when I said I liked the win percentages for 11...Bg7 better than those for 11...f5.

I realize I did not make a strong and early case for Bg7. I should have pressed harder but didn't have the time at that point. Regardless I'm sure we will be OK with 11...f5. I just feel like we can get closer to even more quickly with 11...Bg7.

Last fiddled with by gd_barnes on 2016-11-09 at 23:38
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