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#1 |
Aug 2002
Termonfeckin, IE
24×173 Posts |
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Since there isn't a thread for this I thought I would start one. I would have thought that the government spying on all calls from a big provider would be bigger news than the IRS and AP scandals but unless I am mistaken no one else here seems to think so. Unless of course everyone is to shell-shocked to respond. Though I am sure a certain individual would be here defending this latest outrage.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...on-court-order http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/us...zon-calls.html NYT doesn't think it is that big a deal as the Guardian. But that is not surprising. |
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#2 |
"Jeff"
Feb 2012
St. Louis, Missouri, USA
13·89 Posts |
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#3 | |
∂2ω=0
Sep 2002
República de California
1175510 Posts |
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It's just the latest in a series of "hapless missteps' which are being shamelessly politicized by conservative demagogues, garo. Nothing to see here, I'm sure.
----------------------------- In other "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" news, some of the last remaining shreds of the 4th amendment have been excised. Perhaps because it came from the supreme court (rather than Obama/DOJ), the NYT editors actually objected to this one. The SCOTUS decision on the DNA-swab issue, 5-4 as have been nearly all key rulings of the past decade or so, produced some unusual judicial-bedfellowship: Quote:
By way of balance, the NYT also has an op-ed lauding the decision in a nearby piece here. |
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#4 | |
∂2ω=0
Sep 2002
República de California
101101111010112 Posts |
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On the "how quickly people forget" theme - Any of our readers remember Room 641A? The Verizon data-suck appears to be an outgrowth of the same 7-years-running (at least) program.
----------------------------- Garo, in fairness to the NYT, while the lead article on this today which you linked has the benign-sounding sub-head "Top members of the Senate Intelligence Committee defended the surveillance ...", I note their editorial board is not mincing words on this (underlines mine): President Obama’s Dragnet: The scooping up of all our phone records is an abuse of power that demands a real explanation. Quote:
Last fiddled with by ewmayer on 2013-06-06 at 22:35 |
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#5 |
Aug 2006
5,987 Posts |
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Obviously this has been going on since before Obama took office, another bit of Bush-era PATRIOT Act abuse. It's long been believed to be going on -- all that's new now is a bit of evidence.
I thought that Obama would clean this sort of thing up when he first took office, but apparently that was naive. (Similarly naive: expecting that Putin wouldn't be all that bad, the first time around...) Last fiddled with by CRGreathouse on 2013-06-07 at 02:43 |
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#6 | |
"Kieren"
Jul 2011
In My Own Galaxy!
2×3×1,693 Posts |
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#7 |
Aug 2006
5,987 Posts |
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#8 | |
∂2ω=0
Sep 2002
República de California
267538 Posts |
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ZeroHedge chief-gadfly-blogger "George Washington" offers a lengthy screed titled Is the Government Also Monitoring the CONTENT of Our Phone Calls?. That title is reasonable enough - mass eavesdropping is what the "Room-641A program" (my own term for it) is all about - but GW then makes a startling claim (I underline the dubious part):
The American government is in fact collecting and storing virtually every phone call, purchases, email, text message, internet searches, social media communications, health information, employment history, travel and student records, and virtually all other information of every American. Anyone care to do a bit of back-of-the-digital-envelope math regarding the amount of data this represents, even in compressed form? And note that while voice data can be very efficiently "compressed" by auto-converting them to text, the compute power needed to run the requisite voice-recognition analysis on every phone call made seems exorbitant even for an agency with the vast resources of the NSA. On the other hand, keyword-searches (a standard first-tier-sniffing tool of the NSA and other surveillance agencies) on voice communications would require precisely such a capability ... perhaps that is why the NSA is co-opting the telecomms' own technology on an ever-increasing basis: to get the vast collective resources of the telecom industry to do the NSA's "heavy lifting" work for it. Hmmm ... I am still skeptical about the "collecting and storing virtually everything" claim, but even if it's not true yet, that is surely the direction things are going, and frighteningly fast. [Snark: Funniest reader comment to the above ZH piece is by "General Decline", who writes in MLKesque fashion "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their phone calls."] As far as what-is-going-on-right-now, this online primer, EAVESDROPPING 101, by the folks at nsawatch.org appears to be more realistic (and only slightly less scary). Its take is confirmed in the WaPo piece [which broke the story, along with UK's The Guardian] on the classified program codenamed PRISM, which offers more detail about the "public/private partnerships" involved. (In rather ironic fashion, WaPo's Opinion page at the same time I snarfed the article featured a piece titled "Confronting China on Cyberspying" ... uh, I think we need to look a little closer to home for the really egregious cyberspying): Documents: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies in broad secret program Quote:
Sarcasm aside, in fairness to Google they at least made a show of challenging the directive's constitutionality - but what we need is one of these very-deep-pocketed companies, or even better, a alliance of them, to use some of their manifold $billions in cash to mount a major legal challenge to the US government on all fronts here. They have a better chance of succeeding here than any "littler" initiative, no disrespect to the EFF. Last fiddled with by ewmayer on 2013-06-07 at 19:25 |
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#9 | ||||||
∂2ω=0
Sep 2002
República de California
5·2,351 Posts |
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[One more in-depth post on this and then I promise to restrict myself to briefer updates as news warrants.]
o For starters, it turns out my sarcastic aside in post #8 regarding Google's assurance that “Google cares deeply about the security of our users’ data” was not far off the mark. o Anyone else catch the truly Kafkaesque defense offered for the mass-surveillance by the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee in the NYT editorial I linked? Quote:
(The "only the bad guys" statement from Senator Chambliss is such an obvious falsehood it's not even worthy of highlight). o The president was similarly disingenuous in his "robust defense" of the program yesterday: Quote:
Quote:
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Obama went on to blather to the effect that "you can't have 100% security without some inconvenience." Straw man - no reasonable person expects, much less requests, 100% security from all dangers in life. "Reasonable security" is the standard to use here, and it must *always* be n accord with the constitution, if we are in fact a nation of laws. "Convenience" is entirely immaterial in regard to the legal foundations. More disingenuity from Obama: Quote:
o Sadly, the above "robust defense" article was accompanied in yesterday's online NYT by two with the following titles indicative of broad acquiescence to this mass-scale forfeiture of constitutional rights: As Criticism Grows, Curtailing Surveillance Program Seems Unlikely: Advocates of Congressional intervention say public pressure from fresh disclosures could revive legislation to at least force more transparency in the government’s surveillance programs. Many Americans Appear Resigned to Surveillance: Amid protests, many say that government tracking of Americans’ phone logs and foreigners’ online activities is an acceptable trade-off to ward off terrorism. Which bring to mind a memorable quote by a famous American who understood what fighting for liberty meant: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin Last fiddled with by ewmayer on 2013-06-08 at 18:55 |
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#10 |
Aug 2002
Termonfeckin, IE
276810 Posts |
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Off-topic posts from cheesehead, chalsall and Ernst moved to the "Infamous" thread. I am going to show zero-tolerance on off-topic crap on this thread for once.
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#11 | |
∂2ω=0
Sep 2002
República de California
5·2,351 Posts |
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o Senators Wyden and Udall: government has adopted a secret interpretation of the Patriot Act which would shock Americans.
ZH blogger GW has more on this here - to his credit, he uses the added technical data to modify his earlier statement about recording of *everything* including phone calls - note precisely the issue of "reducing to text" I raised in post #8. [Not that I take any real comfort in this "temporary technical hurdle."] o Norman Solomon of Counterpunch offers An Open Letter to Dianne Feinstein, Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee o Even NYT ultraliberal opiner and longtime Obama see-no-evil-er Maureen Dowd has finally seen the light: Quote:
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