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Old 2022-08-14, 01:40   #56
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Apparently he is unfamiliar with clause 2 of Article VI, Constitution of the United States, AKA the "supremacy clause," which says
It is interesting to observe that Law is simply code.

Testing that code seems to be a rather interesting exercise lately.

In multiple different spaces.

What assumptions were not previously tested? Where should Zener diodes be installed in the circuit?

"Who hath drawn the circuit for the lion?

Jolly good fun! 8^)
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Old 2022-08-14, 03:22   #57
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Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
I don't think that's the only reason they got the warrant.
You are speculating (as am I)

Quote:
And in this case they did have meetings with the someone, and with his legal representatives, and also issued at least one subpoena, but these were ineffective.

In the present instance, some of the documents were covered by the Presidential Records Act. Some of the documents had been ripped up, and some of the ripped-up documents had been taped back together.
Oh my god, a ripped up document. I'll bet that was the only copy in existence.

IMO, the DOJ should have stuck to court orders until the judge got tired of the nonsense and started holding people in contempt, big fines for Trump, stick his lawyers in jail until docs appear (I don't know if a judge has that option). An even better solution might have been to build him a safe room and inventory these items at Mar-a-lago. Nice and hush-hush.

Did the DOJ have the right to get a search warrant? Absolutely. But I think the DOJ played right into Trump's hands. Trump is an absolute master of playing the victim, riling up his base, twisting the narrative, raising money off the affair, etc. Nothing makes Trump happier than being the center of attention and DOJ delivered big-time. And does the DOJ seriously believe they are going to get much traction with "Hey, we had to conduct an unprecedented search, there were classified documents on premises!" narrative when the man had 4 years of access to all classified records and even had the power to de-classify any documents he wanted to.

Quote:
However, I will note that "Sensitive Compartmented Information" is definitely not "run-of-the-mill" Top Secret information.
Aren't you a trusting soul. I can easily imagine the discussion at CIA headquarters after bad intel leads to the droning of 15 children in a remote Afghanistan village. CIA head concludes "better slap Top Secret/SCI label on that mission to protect our sources and methods...."

-- George the cynic

Last fiddled with by Prime95 on 2022-08-14 at 04:23 Reason: typo
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Old 2022-08-14, 03:32   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime95 View Post
I can easily imagine the discussion at CIA headquarters after bad intel leads to the droning of 15 children in a remote Afghanistan village. CIA head concludes "better slap Top Secret/DCI label on that mission to protect our sources and methods...."
Yup. This is why we need people like Julian Assange and Edward Snowden.

Last fiddled with by retina on 2022-08-14 at 03:33
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Old 2022-08-14, 13:18   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime95 View Post
You are speculating (as am I)



Oh my god, a ripped up document. I'll bet that was the only copy in existence.
With the documents he ripped up, they may well have been the only copies in existence. From what I read, these were mainly not classified material, but documents covered by the Presidential Records Act, which are supposed to be preserved for future reference. Of course, we're talking about a man who has gone to great lengths to conceal his past, including his academic records. And who proclaims that the rules don't apply to him.
Quote:
IMO, the DOJ should have stuck to court orders until the judge got tired of the nonsense and started holding people in contempt, big fines for Trump, stick his lawyers in jail until docs appear (I don't know if a judge has that option). An even better solution might have been to build him a safe room and inventory these items at Mar-a-lago. Nice and hush-hush.
Court orders? Fines? You need to give the Court a factual basis for that. He was subpoenaed. He claimed he didn't have the documents. So did his lawyers. (Of course, they may have relied on what he told them.) He had been prevailed upon to put a padlock on a room where he was keeping some of the goods. The FBI broke the padlock to get in to that room while executing the search warrant.
Quote:
Did the DOJ have the right to get a search warrant? Absolutely. But I think the DOJ played right into Trump's hands. Trump is an absolute master of playing the victim, riling up his base, twisting the narrative, raising money off the affair, etc. Nothing makes Trump happier than being the center of attention and DOJ delivered big-time.
I completely agree, in getting the warrant the DOJ played into his hands. The really sad part is not that he can play the victim, but that there are so many ignorant, gullible people who believe his obvious lies.

I'm sure the CIA et al do misuse classification to (try to) bury their screwups. I am equally sure that this is not typical. We do have "assets" who, if their identities were disclosed, would be killed. We have other methods of getting information which, if disclosed, would be shut off.

Of course, classification is not the only way to bury government wrongdoing. Destruction of records is a time-honored practice. It seems the Secret Service may have employed this method WRT communications during the Capitol Riot of January 6, 2021. Which the Republican Party officially refers to as "legitimate political discourse."

Why do you imagine a president would abscond with "sensitive compartmented information" on his way out of office? I can imagine this particular former president using it for blackmail or coercion.

The president can declassify most documents he wants to, but there's a legal process he needs to follow. There are documents the president can not declassify, notably nuclear weapons secrets, which are covered by the Atomic Energy Act. But there is nothing in the warrant alleging violation of the Atomic Energy Act.

Alas, we won't see the affidavit given in support of the warrant application unless criminal charges are filed, based on what the search turned up. It is possible that there are unclassified or even personal documents which could create problems for their owner.
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Old 2022-08-17, 13:06   #60
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It seems that El Crappy Tan is having trouble finding lawyers with relevant experience who are willing to assist him should he be charged with any of the crimes named in the search warrant recently executed at Mar-a-Lago.

He has a long history of flagrantly disregarding legal advice from his attorneys, which is not something attorneys necessarily find desirable in a client. He also has a long history of stiffing people he hires, which is definitely something attorneys do not want from a client. Another thing attorneys don't like is when clients lie to them. And given the fact that one of his lawyers signed a statement to the DOJ in June asserting that all classified materials at Mar-a-Lago had been returned, that more such documents were found in the August search, and that making false statements to federal officials is a felony, it appears that the only defense that lawyer could have is that (s)he was relying on what the client said.

One of the lawyers he now has, Alina Habba, does not appear to have any relevant experience; indeed, seems unacquainted with, or is willing to publicly disregard, even the basics of how criminal investigations work. She does appear to be willing to say just about anything, however irresponsible.

She went on NewsMax and demanded the names of the witnesses who supported the application for the search warrant. That information would be in the affidavit submitted with the application for the warrant.

A warrant affidavit pursuant to a criminal investigation is generally kept sealed until the investigation is completed. This is to prevent possible intimidation of witnesses during the investigation. One event which can herald the completion of a criminal investigation is the filing of criminal charges. So Ms. Habba should be careful what she wishes for.
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Old 2022-08-21, 23:38   #61
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
It seems that El Crappy Tan is having trouble finding lawyers with relevant experience who are willing to assist him should he be charged with any of the crimes named in the search warrant recently executed at Mar-a-Lago.
Personally, I've been observing. With some amusement...

WTF?

All I can do at this point in time as an outside observer is to suggest perhaps you all get your house in order.

I hope that makes sense.
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Old 2022-08-22, 11:58   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
Personally, I've been observing. With some amusement...

WTF?
Stands for "Welcome to Florida."

Quote:
All I can do at this point in time as an outside observer is to suggest perhaps you all get your house in order.

I hope that makes sense.
It may make sense, but I don't know what you mean, let alone how you imagine we achieve it.
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Old 2022-08-22, 12:14   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
<snip>
One of the lawyers he now has, Alina Habba, does not appear to have any relevant experience; indeed, seems unacquainted with, or is willing to publicly disregard, even the basics of how criminal investigations work. She does appear to be willing to say just about anything, however irresponsible.

She went on NewsMax and demanded the names of the witnesses who supported the application for the search warrant. That information would be in the affidavit submitted with the application for the warrant.
<snip>
Actually, the witnesses' real names would probably not be given in the affidavit. They would be referred to as "Witness 1," "Witness 2," etc. But the facts each witness has attested to would probably allow people to figure out who they were.

I note that the judge who signed the warrant, FBI agents who executed it, and the FBI generally, have been receiving death threats. Carl Paladino, who is running for US Representative in New York's 23rd District, said on a radio show that US Attorney General Merrick Garland should "probably be executed" for approving the warrant. When negative public reaction set in, he said he was "being facetious."
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Old 2022-08-22, 16:05   #64
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We already know Trump needs one of the top 12 states to back him for him to become president.
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Old 2022-08-22, 22:36   #65
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
It may make sense, but I don't know what you mean, let alone how you imagine we achieve it.
I don't know either. But, there's always hope for the Grand Old Party.

I find that /some/ of them are still sane. And have sound policies.

Others, not so much... The Democrats are equally useless, IMO, in that frame of reference.

Again, I don't have /much/ skin in this game. A little bit of money having a similar ground. No big deal.

If this helps at all...

I find that when I am under a bit of stress it is best to listen to those you trust. Please enjoy excellence.
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Old 2022-08-22, 23:22   #66
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by science_man_88 View Post
We already know Trump needs one of the top 12 states to back him for him to become president.
Please support your argument with evidence.

The Calculus is *far* more complicated than that.

Why have you now interjected yourself into this conversation? With zero knowledge. Is it white noise, or pink?

Serious question.
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