mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Extra Stuff > Hobbies > Chess > Game 2 - ♔♕♙♘♖♙ - Shaolin Pirates

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 2014-03-08, 05:07   #12
cheesehead
 
cheesehead's Avatar
 
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA

22×3×641 Posts
Default

I think I found a better line for Black. (We may have analyzed something similar a few moves ago, but not very far IIRC.) It also is more consistent with their choice of 21 ... Bc8 than with their other possibilities.

[B]22 [/B]Bd2[B] bxc3[/B]

[I]If I'd studied the following 23 ... Nb4 line before voting on move 22, I'd have argued more strongly for 22 Rf2 instead. I regret not doing that yesterday and today. I regret hurrying you folks about posting 22 Bd2. I was "in a hurry" and didn't take time to properly consider the 22 Rf2 alternative even though I had the feeling that Rf2 was more sound. Mea culpa! [B] If you ever again see me recommending a hurried posting of a move, please remind me of this regret.[/B][/I]

In this line, Black doesn't have to regard his c4-pawn as a lost cause right away, but can use it to fight for a while.

If 23 Bxc3, then 23 ... Nb4 becomes feasible for the first time in a long while because b4 is no longer guarded by a White pawn. Black aims at a possible 24 ... Nd3, which in turn aims at neutralizing our N/c5. (The annoying 24 ... Nc2 is also possible, but our natural 24 Ne3 prevents that.)

If [B]23 Bxc3 Nb4 24 Ne3 Nd3[/B] 25 Nxd3 (not Nxc4 Nxc5 26 dxc5 wrecking our pawn chain) cxd3 26 Be4 Ba6
and our d3 weakness is now annoying real instead of only theoretical -- because we allowed their knight access to b4. One possible continuation is 27 Rfd1 Nd5 28 Nxd5 exd5 29 Bxd3 Bxd3 30 Rxd3 Ra8 and now Rc1, Bd2 and Rc5 gets our queen rook out where it can flex, but I'm sure Black has [I]something[/I] better before move 30 in that line.

- -

Instead, to prevent Black from exploiting d3 after 23 Bxc3 Nb4, we'd need to play
[B]24 Bxb4[/B]

Then if 24 ... axb4, Black would've un-isolated his queen-side pawns ... but it would give our a-pawn a precious pass.

Instead [B]24 ... Rxb4[/B] attacks our b-pawn.
If 25 Rf2 Nd5 and we don't have time to bring a rook to bear on c4. But if we take the N, exd5 opens up Black's light-squared bishop.)
So, we'd have to protect the b-pawn another way: Ra2 or Rab1 (but not Rfb1).

(More analysis to follow here!)

- -

Or we can re-analyze a [B]23 bxc3[/B] response to 22 ... bxc3. This might seem to make [B]22 Bd2[/B] look silly, but we're not contractually bound to play the uppercase B instead of the lowercase b when recapturing, and bxc3 doesn't allow Black to exploit our d3 weak square.

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2014-03-08 at 06:06
cheesehead is offline  
Old 2014-03-08, 06:29   #13
LaurV
Romulan Interpreter
 
LaurV's Avatar
 
"name field"
Jun 2011
Thailand

3·5·683 Posts
Default

Very good analysis.
Again, what it would be their "so good" reply to 22...bxc3 23 bxc3?, "small b" version, to scare us so much to make us use "big b" instead?. I think that from this point of view, their 22...bxc3 is wasted. After 23 bxc3 (small b), they still need to look for a move. In fact, they have nothing to play now. They must find a better move, and I don't see any. Possibly f6 or f5, I think this is where we have to concentrate the analysis now: 22...f5/f6. (because h5 is weaker, if we follow with Bg5, and I see no reason why they should move the king, or the rooks....). This I will look deeper into, but not today. I think I will dedicate the tomorrow afternoon to chess, if my girls don't have different plans (you know, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Women%27s_Day"]March 8[/URL], etc., need to go out to eat some cake, at least... hehe, anyhow I am not a very good father/husband, I would have to follow the orders, at least on special days... - in my home country this day is a very big celebration, it was like that during the communists ruled too, and bad habits die hard) :razz:
LaurV is offline  
Old 2014-03-08, 16:35   #14
cheesehead
 
cheesehead's Avatar
 
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA

22×3×641 Posts
Default

[QUOTE=LaurV;368565]
Again, what it would be their "so good" reply to 22...bxc3 23 bxc3?, "small b" version, to scare us so much to make us use "big b" instead?[/QUOTE]You advocated Bxc3 instead of bxc3, during our move 21 discussion, in arguing for Bd2:

[QUOTE=LaurV;367246]Also, Bd2 might be very good against bxc3 adventure, if they beat, we place the bishop in c3, a very strong position, and don't separate the a/b pawns.[/QUOTE]

- -

As for "scare us": a chess move can simply improve a position without being a response to any obvious threat.

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2014-03-08 at 16:45
cheesehead is offline  
Old 2014-03-08, 17:59   #15
cheesehead
 
cheesehead's Avatar
 
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA

22·3·641 Posts
Default

Resuming previous analysis:

[QUOTE=cheesehead;368564]
< snip >

[B]22 [/B]Bd2[B] bxc3[/B]

[I]< snip >[/I]

If [B]23 Bxc3 Nb4 [/B]< snip >

[B]24 Bxb4[/B][/QUOTE]Now, as mentioned previously, Black has two ways to recapture:
[B]24 ... Rxb4[/B] attacks our b-pawn, but in previous analysis I forgot that we still had a knight on d1 (instead of e3) to protect it. Now [B]25 Rf2[/B] looks okay. E.g. 25 ... Nd5 26 Nc3 Nxc3 27 bxc3 Rb6 28 Be4 and 29 Rb1.
[B]24 ... axb4[/B] gives us a passed pawn, but we need to look further.

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2014-03-08 at 18:07
cheesehead is offline  
 

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
White 20 cheesehead Game 2 - ♔♕♙♘♖♙ - Shaolin Pirates 23 2014-02-13 08:04
White 19 cheesehead Game 2 - ♔♕♙♘♖♙ - Shaolin Pirates 12 2014-01-31 20:14
White 18 cheesehead Game 2 - ♔♕♙♘♖♙ - Shaolin Pirates 16 2014-01-24 22:11
White 17 cheesehead Game 2 - ♔♕♙♘♖♙ - Shaolin Pirates 22 2013-12-20 18:11
White 16 LaurV Game 2 - ♔♕♙♘♖♙ - Shaolin Pirates 15 2013-12-08 10:49

All times are UTC. The time now is 17:56.


Sun Dec 4 17:56:24 UTC 2022 up 108 days, 15:24, 0 users, load averages: 0.90, 1.08, 1.14

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.

≠ ± ∓ ÷ × · − √ ‰ ⊗ ⊕ ⊖ ⊘ ⊙ ≤ ≥ ≦ ≧ ≨ ≩ ≺ ≻ ≼ ≽ ⊏ ⊐ ⊑ ⊒ ² ³ °
∠ ∟ ° ≅ ~ ‖ ⟂ ⫛
≡ ≜ ≈ ∝ ∞ ≪ ≫ ⌊⌋ ⌈⌉ ∘ ∏ ∐ ∑ ∧ ∨ ∩ ∪ ⨀ ⊕ ⊗ 𝖕 𝖖 𝖗 ⊲ ⊳
∅ ∖ ∁ ↦ ↣ ∩ ∪ ⊆ ⊂ ⊄ ⊊ ⊇ ⊃ ⊅ ⊋ ⊖ ∈ ∉ ∋ ∌ ℕ ℤ ℚ ℝ ℂ ℵ ℶ ℷ ℸ 𝓟
¬ ∨ ∧ ⊕ → ← ⇒ ⇐ ⇔ ∀ ∃ ∄ ∴ ∵ ⊤ ⊥ ⊢ ⊨ ⫤ ⊣ … ⋯ ⋮ ⋰ ⋱
∫ ∬ ∭ ∮ ∯ ∰ ∇ ∆ δ ∂ ℱ ℒ ℓ
𝛢𝛼 𝛣𝛽 𝛤𝛾 𝛥𝛿 𝛦𝜀𝜖 𝛧𝜁 𝛨𝜂 𝛩𝜃𝜗 𝛪𝜄 𝛫𝜅 𝛬𝜆 𝛭𝜇 𝛮𝜈 𝛯𝜉 𝛰𝜊 𝛱𝜋 𝛲𝜌 𝛴𝜎𝜍 𝛵𝜏 𝛶𝜐 𝛷𝜙𝜑 𝛸𝜒 𝛹𝜓 𝛺𝜔