Manic of a panic is geopolitical

[retina]

Originally Posted by storm5510

Do these people fear the vaccine because it was developed so rapidly? It may be they have a sit-back-and-wait mentality. They want to see how it affects others before they take it themselves.

You would need to ask each person to know their thoughts. But I suspect it more about distrust. They are more willing to trust random bats and pangolins giving them random viruses, than to trust directed research based upon scientific knowledge to give them antidotes.

Originally Posted by storm5510

There is something I have thought about, but not seen addressed: Is it possible for a person to be a carrier and never become ill?

Of course. Happens all the time. It's been happening since forever.

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by storm5510

There is something I have thought about, but not seen addressed: Is it possible for a person to be a carrier and never become ill?

Sure. That is mainly the way most of infectious diseases (covid including) are transmitted. If you see a sick guy coughing his lungs out in the middle of the street, you will avoid him instinctively. Is the one who seems healthy who infects you.


(edit, sorry, page change, didn't see retina's reply)

[tServo]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

This L.A. Times story is not encouraging. Some healthcare workers refuse to take COVID-19 vaccine, even with priority access

With regards to the workers reasons, you guys are missing the obvious that popped out at me having been raised in that culture.
Just look at the hospital's names: SAINT Elizabeth HOLY CROSS hospital.

[Uncwilly]

Originally Posted by tServo

With regards to the workers reasons, you guys are missing the obvious that popped out at me having been raised in that culture.
Just look at the hospital's names: SAINT Elizabeth HOLY CROSS hospital.

The workers are not all nuns. I know a healthcare professional that has worked at hospitals associated with 2 different religions. Neither institution required that the workers believed the tenants of that faith. And each of those institutions were very much pro vaccination with regards to their staff.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by tServo

With regards to the workers reasons, you guys are missing the obvious that popped out at me having been raised in that culture.
Just look at the hospital's names: SAINT Elizabeth HOLY CROSS hospital.

If you read the article, you'll see that the reluctance to get vaccinated is individual, not institutional. (At the risk of belaboring the obvious, if there were institutional opposition by a hospital's Admin to getting vaccinated, the rate of vaccination among its workers would be zero.)

One reason for reluctance to get the vaccine is that people see it as an unknown quantity. One individual was six months pregnant, and didn't know whether the vaccine was safe for pregnant women. Another reason is that many health care workers have worked for months with COVID-19 patients and haven't gotten sick, so think the likelihood their luck will continue to hold outweighs the possible risk of the new vaccine.

The article also points out that the name "Operation Warp Speed" for the development effort has given the unfortunate impression that the vaccines have been rushed into service.

The article also indicates that reluctance among health care workers to get the vaccine is country-wide.

Many hospitals with "Saint" names are affiliated with Catholicism. I am not aware of any Catholic doctrine or dogma opposing vaccination.

There are some religious objections to vaccinations, but I am not aware of any denominations or sects with a doctrinal or dogmatic opposition to vaccinations or injections being in charge of a public hospital.

[Uncwilly]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

Many hospitals with "Saint" names are affiliated with Catholicism. I am not aware of any Catholic doctrine or dogma opposing vaccination..

Short of an ex cathedra statement, this is as good as you can hope for.
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/25/950297591/in-christmas-message-pope-francis-urges-coronavirus-vaccines-for-all

[tServo]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

If you read the article, you'll see that the reluctance to get vaccinated is individual, not institutional. (At the risk of belaboring the obvious, if there were institutional opposition by a hospital's Admin to getting vaccinated, the rate of vaccination among its workers would be zero.)

One reason for reluctance to get the vaccine is that people see it as an unknown quantity. One individual was six months pregnant, and didn't know whether the vaccine was safe for pregnant women. Another reason is that many health care workers have worked for months with COVID-19 patients and haven't gotten sick, so think the likelihood their luck will continue to hold outweighs the possible risk of the new vaccine.

The article also points out that the name "Operation Warp Speed" for the development effort has given the unfortunate impression that the vaccines have been rushed into service.

The article also indicates that reluctance among health care workers to get the vaccine is country-wide.

Many hospitals with "Saint" names are affiliated with Catholicism. I am not aware of any Catholic doctrine or dogma opposing vaccination.

There are some religious objections to vaccinations, but I am not aware of any denominations or sects with a doctrinal or dogmatic opposition to vaccinations or injections being in charge of a public hospital.

Your response and Uncwilly's clearly show that my statement was vague. I agree with the reasons Dr. S. stated. I did not want to imply that nuns nor the admin nor any official doctrine had anything to do with this. I should have stated that conservative nurses tend to gravitate toward Catholic hospitals just as evangelical protestant nurses do. It is simply a matter of "birds of a feather" i.e. where does one feel most comfortable. A higher percentage of them may eschew vaccines because of their political beliefs.

BTW, there ARE in my area Catholic schools and Protestant evangelical ones that make all the employees sign a statement professing their faith etc etc etc.
I was shocked to learn this as I thought that was illegal but with the Robert's court recent rulings I may be out-of-date.

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

I am not aware of any Catholic doctrine or dogma opposing vaccination.

Well, I guess the almighty god, when he wrote the bible, didn't have a freaking idea about things the progress brings.

[Uncwilly]

@LaurV
If you look at the Bible's principles about dealing with 'leprosy' (which covered a number of different thing including mold in houses), you will see germ theory in action.
There was face/mouth coverings, quarantines, and social distancing. The Catholic Church is a group with particular vested interests and doesn't always have their beliefs in line with what the Bible actually says.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Prosecutor: Wisconsin pharmacist thought vaccine was unsafe

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — A Wisconsin pharmacist convinced the world was "crashing down" told police he tried to ruin hundreds of doses of coronavirus vaccine because he believed the shots would mutate people's DNA, according to court documents released Monday.

Police in Grafton, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of Milwaukee, arrested Advocate Aurora Health pharmacist Steven Brandenburg last week following an investigation into the 57 spoiled vials of the Moderna vaccine, which officials say contained enough doses to inoculate more than 500 people. Charges are pending.

"He'd formed this belief they were unsafe," Ozaukee County District Attorney Adam Gerol said during a virtual hearing. He added that Brandenburg was upset because he and his wife are divorcing, and an Aurora employee said Brandenburg had taken a gun to work twice.

A detective wrote in a probable cause statement that Brandenburg, 46, is an admitted conspiracy theorist and that he told investigators he intentionally tried to ruin the vaccine because it could hurt people by changing their DNA.
<snip>

I'd say we have more to fear from anti-vaxxers and conspiratorialists, than from the vaccine.

[Uncwilly]

So here is how bad it is in the Los Angeles area:
https://abc7.com/9358924/

a new directive now orders first responders in the field to stop bringing patients to the hospital if their heart stops beating, like in the event of a cardiac arrest. Ambulances are being told not to transport trauma patients - victims of heart attacks, gunshot wounds, car crashes - to the hospital if they can't be resuscitated in the field.
...
Hospitals are running out of oxygen.

Patients are being treated based upon acuity, meaning the triage systems are working as best they can. We're trying to encourage people to not call 911 unless they really need to. So if they just have flu symptoms, which is likely due to COVID, but they're not experiencing severe chest pain, they're not experiencing shortness of breath, they're able to keep down liquids, then the best treatment is to call your doctor or stay home. Not call 911 and not go to emergency department.