Marriage and other LGBTQ Rights

[Zeta-Flux]

Originally Posted by kladner

My partner and I are a family, sir.

I didn't say you weren't. Did you read the article I linked too? It might change how you interpret my last sentence.

[kladner]

Originally Posted by Zeta-Flux

I didn't say you weren't. Did you read the article I linked too? It might change how you interpret my last sentence.

Even the title of that blog is grossly offensive. Your input here, has been subtle, to not-so-ubtle bigotry. The piece to which you refer is paean to hatred and discrimination. These ideas of family control and patriarchal domination are highly repulsive.

What kind of "loving god" can you claim to follow, sir? Who set you and you hateful sect in judgement of the world? What odious hubris.

[Brian-E]

At least not everyone in the LDS agrees with this latest odious hubris:

http://www.mormonsformarriage.com/wh...iage-equality/

[chappy]

Originally Posted by Zeta-Flux

chappy,

I suppose I should post some context, from the LDS position. The following link it to what I believe to be a fair assessment of the policy change from our point of view: Blog post explaining the change.

The LDS church takes family very seriously.

I had already read that blog before I posted here. But, thanks for providing more context. I just reject the notion that the average same-sex family is likely to behead their child for any reason.

[davar55]

Originally Posted by chappy

I had already read that blog before I posted here. But, thanks for providing more context. I just reject the notion that the average same-sex family is likely ... for any reason.

Religion is THE problem, d*mn it.

[Zeta-Flux]

Originally Posted by kladner

Even the title of that blog is grossly offensive. Your input here, has been subtle, to not-so-ubtle bigotry. The piece to which you refer is paean to hatred and discrimination. These ideas of family control and patriarchal domination are highly repulsive.

I'm sorry you thought that the title of the blog had to do with accepting patriarchy or unrighteous (male) domination. It doesn't. The blog owner is a woman who disputes the worldly idea that women need to be misbehaved.

But as is common course here, I'm often falsely accused of lying, bigotry, and a host of other misbehaviors. So I'll bow out once again, as I think that the blog post clearly puts forth our position for those who aren't bent on finding fault.

What kind of "loving god" can you claim to follow, sir? Who set you and you hateful sect in judgement of the world? What odious hubris.

In scouts this week, one of the scouts started calling another scout hurtful names. When I started talking to him, to correct the behavior, he said in essence "Stop judging me." It is quite easy to think that making moral judgements on behavior means one is condemning the person, but that is not necessarily the case. Love often means correction. I find the fact that God often corrects me as a sign of his love.

Anyway, I'm out.

[davar55]

Originally Posted by Zeta-Flux

...
In scouts this week, one of the scouts started calling another scout hurtful names. When I started talking to him, to correct the behavior, he said in essence "Stop judging me." It is quite easy to think that making moral judgements on behavior means one is condemning the person, but that is not necessarily the case. Love often means correction. I find the fact that God often corrects me as a sign of his love.
Anyway, I'm out.

Judge the religion, not the religious.

[wblipp]

Originally Posted by davar55

Religion is THE problem, d*mn it.

I don't know. It looks to me like intolerance of other religions is the problem. Why should I care that there is a religion that teaches homosexuality is wrong? At least as long as it isn't my religion, and they don't have legal or coercive power over non-members? The LDS statement blandly recognizes same-sex marriage is the law of the land and is inconsistent with their doctrines. So is coffee drinking. These are among the many doctrinal issues that mean LDS is never going to be my church - but I don't have a problem with other people choosing these things.

It may be interesting to watch this evolve over time, though. Many religions have been struggling with these issues, at least in part because societal acceptance has been emptying closets, and people have had to recognize that "they" are "us." There is some indication that male homosexuality is correlated with birth order, and Mormons have larger than average families. If correct, their community will have a larger than average number of their own children being shut out. Social barriers will continue to fall, Mormon closets will empty, and they will need to deal with that. Perhaps like they dealt with polygamy and black membership.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by wblipp

I don't know. It looks to me like intolerance of other religions is the problem. Why should I care that there is a religion that teaches homosexuality is wrong?
At least as long as it isn't my religion, and they don't have legal or coercive power over non-members?

But they do or will have POLITICAL power with respect to laws that get passed.

Denial of rights to a minority because of religious beliefs should never be put to
a vote.

[kladner]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

But they do or will have POLITICAL power with respect to laws that get passed.

Denial of rights to a minority because of religious beliefs should never be put to
a vote.

Exactly. Thanks, Bob.
LDS, and/or its members and supporters poured lots of money into the California Proposition 8 campaign. Let's just say that they were not on the side of human rights.

[only_human]

Originally Posted by kladner

LDS, and/or its members and supporters poured lots of money into the California Proposition 8 campaign. Let's just say that they were not on the side of human rights.

I remember my ire when they did that. It exacerbated my already existing dislike of external influences and money in politics.

Also in Utah, Judge Orders Baby Removed From Lesbian Couple

Ashley Sumner, a spokeswoman for the Utah Division of Child and Family Services, said the order had raised concerns. She added the agency was not aware of any issues with the couple's performance as foster parents.

The couple plan to fight the ruling.