mersenneforum.org Watts to Heat Ratio of a PSU
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 2015-12-11, 12:38 #1 wildrabbitt   Jul 2014 6778 Posts Watts to Heat Ratio of a PSU Hi, I need to know how much of the X amount of Watts a PSU uses convert to heat. Is this normally given in the specs for a PSU?
 2015-12-11, 12:49 #2 retina Undefined     "The unspeakable one" Jun 2006 My evil lair 614010 Posts Take 100%, subtract the rated efficiency, and multiply by the usage. E.g. (100% - 80%) * 500W = 100W But in reality all of the power gets converted to heat anyway.
 2015-12-11, 14:11 #3 wildrabbitt   Jul 2014 44710 Posts Thanks Retina. Is that right ? All the watts get converted to heat ? Even the beep from POST speaker?
2015-12-11, 14:13   #4
LaurV
Romulan Interpreter

Jun 2011
Thailand

5·1,889 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by wildrabbitt I need to know how much of the X amount of Watts a PSU uses convert to heat.
All of it...
All energy converts to heat one way or another, hehe...

Some of it does useful things for us, like pushing the car forward or lighting the room in the night, before converting to heat, but eventually all ends up as heat...

 2015-12-11, 14:15 #5 wildrabbitt   Jul 2014 3·149 Posts The locations of the heat conversion is what I need to take into consideration.
2015-12-11, 14:41   #6
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

2·4,787 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by wildrabbitt The locations of the heat conversion is what I need to take into consideration.
Then in the case of the PSU, use the formula that retina gave. For other devices, ideally measure the power consumed. If that's not possible (often it's not directly) then go with the devices' power consumption ratings. As mentioned, it all ends up as heat at the end of the day.

As an aside, understanding the First and Second laws of thermodynamics is a very empowering tool.

 2015-12-11, 15:47 #7 kladner     "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 236568 Posts Efficiency varies, depending on how heavily loaded the PSU is. I think a rule of thumb is that efficiency peaks around 50% load and trails off in the 85-100% range. This amount of this decline may be related to the rated efficiency of the supply. If a supply has been reviewed by a technically equipped tester, there may be graphs of its power response. If you plan to run it hard all the time, the benefits of Gold or Platinum ratings increase, which is also true as the total power used increases. I consider that I am in the prime zone drawing a bit over 800 watts from a 1200 watt Platinum supply, on a machine which runs near 24/7.
 2015-12-11, 16:31 #8 VictordeHolland     "Victor de Hollander" Aug 2011 the Netherlands 100100110002 Posts 80 Plus certification? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus 80Plus: 80% efficient between 20%-100% of (max) rated power 80Plus Bronze: 81% (20% load) 85% (50 %load) 81% (100% load) 80Plus Silver..etc. 80Plus Gold... 80Plus Platinum... 80Plus Titanium... (see the table in the wikipedia article) Notice that except for Titanium, they don't have efficiency requirements <20% load. An idle computer could very well be below 20% of the rated wattage of the PSU and be less efficient than 80% even though the PSU has a 80Plus certification. PSUs with better 80Plus certification (>Silver) are usually more expensive for the same rated power. Depending on your usage and electricity costs, the break-even-point for a more efficient PSU can be months to many years. Lesson from this: use a PSU which suits your needs (rated power and efficiency vs. costs), and don't lay too much emphasis on getting the most efficient PSU. In the unlikely case that you are a 'save-the-planet' extremist, don't buy a computer at all! Lot's of energy used to delve the (rare) metals and production probably took place in China which heavily utilises coal plants!
2015-12-11, 21:36   #9
Mark Rose

"/X\(β-β)/X\"
Jan 2013

1011011100112 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by VictordeHolland PSUs with better 80Plus certification (>Silver) are usually more expensive for the same rated power. Depending on your usage and electricity costs, the break-even-point for a more efficient PSU can be months to many years. Lesson from this: use a PSU which suits your needs (rated power and efficiency vs. costs), and don't lay too much emphasis on getting the most efficient PSU.
A reasonable rule of thumb is 1 watt of power costs $1/year ($0.09/kWh). Take a system that consumes 600 watts (two GPUs and a CPU), compare the power supply consumed watts at 50% load vs plain 80 Plus, and the US cost for a 750+ watt power supply (from pcpartpicker.com):

Code:
Unrated:          ???,                  $47 80 Plus: 750,$90 (base case for savings below)
80 Plus Bronze:   706, save  $50/year,$60
80 Plus Silver:   682, save  $68/year,$81
80 Plus Gold:     667, save  $83/year,$77
80 Plus Platinum: 652, save  $98/year,$99
80 Plus Titanium: 638, save $112/year,$377
If high loads will be running most of the time, it's a no-brainer to go with an 80 Plus Platinum power supply. It'll pay for the full cost of the unit in a year, or the upgrade price in a few months. That's not counting air conditioning savings.

If your power is really expensive (California, Germany, etc.), then the Titanium might make sense.

Last fiddled with by Mark Rose on 2015-12-11 at 21:39

2015-12-11, 22:13   #10
Serpentine Vermin Jar

Jul 2014

37·89 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LaurV All of it... All energy converts to heat one way or another, hehe... Some of it does useful things for us, like pushing the car forward or lighting the room in the night, before converting to heat, but eventually all ends up as heat...
Ah, entropy. Delightful.

2015-12-12, 09:01   #11
xilman
Bamboozled!

"πΊππ·π·π­"
May 2003
Down not across

2×72×109 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LaurV All of it... All energy converts to heat one way or another, hehe...
Really?

I would argue that some of it is converted to rest mass. Consider "heat" falling into a black hole, whether in the form of hot matter or electromagnetic or gravitational radiation. Assuming Hawking's mechanism is correct, some of that energy will come out in the form of particles such as electrons and neutrinos. What happens after that is very speculative indeed but a good case has been made for the future universe to consist primarily of positronium, equal numbers of neutrinos and anti-neutrinos and extremely low energy photons.

In the short term, of course, your approximation is an extremely good one.

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