Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 16 discussion

MooMoo2 · 2016-12-07, 04:19

The most popular move on the move 15 poll was ...fxe4. Stockfish played 16. Bxe4, and the FEN is:
r2q1rk1/5pbp/p1npb3/1p1Np3/4B3/2P5/PPN2PPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 16

Game so far: 1.e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5 a6 9. Na3 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5 f5 12. c3 Bg7 13. Bd3 Be6 14. Nc2 O-O 15. O-O fxe4 16. Bxe4

Depth: 50 ply. Nodes searched: 703,385,374,994 (~703 G)

dh1 · 2016-12-07, 21:06

Komodo 10, 40 ply, top 3 moves analysis:

16. ... Rc8 17. g3 a5 18. a4 b4 0.00
16. ... Kh8 17. Nd5-e3 Qd7 18. Qf3 Rc8 -0.42
16. ... Ra7 17. a4 bxa4 18. Nc2-b4 Nd5xb4 -0.43

WMHalsdorf · 2016-12-08, 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dh1

Komodo 10, 40 ply, top 3 moves analysis:

16. ... Rc8 17. g3 a5 18. a4 b4 0.00
16. ... Kh8 17. Nd5-e3 Qd7 18. Qf3 Rc8 -0.42
16. ... Ra7 17. a4 bxa4 18. Nc2-b4 Nd5xb4 -0.43

I agree that 16...Rc8 is the best move but I think a4 is a possible reply insteat of g3.

gd_barnes · 2016-12-10, 00:54

I'm back at home as my business trip was cut short. I also let Komodo 10 run on this move...to 37 ply. As stated by DH1, it clearly likes 16...Rc8.

The best part about Rc8 is that the analysis kept showing as trending better and better for black as the plies got deeper. At 37 ply it was at -.07. It was ranging between -.10 and -.15 between plies 30 and 35 and DH1 says it is .00 at ply 40. The question is has it already found a drawish line for the game? In other words will the analysis ever be better for us than .00 as the plies get deeper?

If we are going to have a chance to win this game we will need to find moves that trend better for our side as the plies get deeper even if the moves in question are not rated as the best ones. Here the best rated move has the best trend so we have the best of both worlds. The trend is what could allow us to ultimately look deeper than is shown by the program and is one of the few things that could give humans armed with a strong engine a slight advantage over another strong engine.

I now have it looking at a move 17 response by white. It is debating amongst a4, g3, and g4 after 27 ply. It is still early in the analysis. I will post the results of its look late tonight or early Sat. This is another thing that we will have to do...begin looking at responses by white before it is his turn and considering our responses to those before it is our next turn. This will ultimately give us and our engines additional time to look at each move.

Let's see if we can rock the world and win with black!

gd_barnes · 2016-12-10, 16:50

Here is Komodo 10's top 3 responses for white to our 16...Rc8 (35 ply):

17. g3 f5 18. Bg2 a5 19. Qd2 Kh8 +.08
17. a4 f5 18. axb5 axb5 19. Bf3 Kh8 .00
17. Nce3 f5 18. Bc2 Ne7 19. Nxe7+ Qxe7 .00

+ = white advantage

Once again, the top move continued to slightly trend favorably for us as the plies got deeper. At this point the question is can we get better than .00 at some point? With 2 of the top 3 moves being exactly .00 it is possible that the engines are already seeing a draw.

2016-12-07, 04:19	#1
MooMoo2 "Michael Kwok" Mar 2006 1177₁₀ Posts	Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 16 discussion The most popular move on the move 15 poll was ...fxe4. Stockfish played 16. Bxe4, and the FEN is: r2q1rk1/5pbp/p1npb3/1p1Np3/4B3/2P5/PPN2PPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 16 Game so far: 1.e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5 a6 9. Na3 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5 f5 12. c3 Bg7 13. Bd3 Be6 14. Nc2 O-O 15. O-O fxe4 16. Bxe4 Depth: 50 ply. Nodes searched: 703,385,374,994 (~703 G) Attached Thumbnails

2016-12-10, 16:50	#5
gd_barnes "Gary" May 2007 Overland Park, KS 12,161 Posts	Here is Komodo 10's top 3 responses for white to our 16...Rc8 (35 ply): 17. g3 f5 18. Bg2 a5 19. Qd2 Kh8 +.08 17. a4 f5 18. axb5 axb5 19. Bf3 Kh8 .00 17. Nce3 f5 18. Bc2 Ne7 19. Nxe7+ Qxe7 .00 + = white advantage Once again, the top move continued to slightly trend favorably for us as the plies got deeper. At this point the question is can we get better than .00 at some point? With 2 of the top 3 moves being exactly .00 it is possible that the engines are already seeing a draw. Last fiddled with by gd_barnes on 2016-12-10 at 16:51

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 36 discussion. Drawn game?	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	10	2017-04-29 17:39
Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 25 discussion	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	6	2017-02-14 00:30
Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 20 discussion	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	6	2017-01-02 21:49
Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 15 discussion	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	5	2016-12-06 05:27
Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 13 discussion	MooMoo2	Other Chess Games	9	2016-11-21 08:35

2016-12-07, 21:06	#2
dh1 "D" Sep 2015 35₁₀ Posts	Komodo 10, 40 ply, top 3 moves analysis: 16. ... Rc8 17. g3 a5 18. a4 b4 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Nd5-e3 Qd7 18. Qf3 Rc8 -0.42 16. ... Ra7 17. a4 bxa4 18. Nc2-b4 Nd5xb4 -0.43

2016-12-10, 00:54	#4
gd_barnes "Gary" May 2007 Overland Park, KS 27601₈ Posts	I'm back at home as my business trip was cut short. I also let Komodo 10 run on this move...to 37 ply. As stated by DH1, it clearly likes 16...Rc8. The best part about Rc8 is that the analysis kept showing as trending better and better for black as the plies got deeper. At 37 ply it was at -.07. It was ranging between -.10 and -.15 between plies 30 and 35 and DH1 says it is .00 at ply 40. The question is has it already found a drawish line for the game? In other words will the analysis ever be better for us than .00 as the plies get deeper? If we are going to have a chance to win this game we will need to find moves that trend better for our side as the plies get deeper even if the moves in question are not rated as the best ones. Here the best rated move has the best trend so we have the best of both worlds. The trend is what could allow us to ultimately look deeper than is shown by the program and is one of the few things that could give humans armed with a strong engine a slight advantage over another strong engine. I now have it looking at a move 17 response by white. It is debating amongst a4, g3, and g4 after 27 ply. It is still early in the analysis. I will post the results of its look late tonight or early Sat. This is another thing that we will have to do...begin looking at responses by white before it is his turn and considering our responses to those before it is our next turn. This will ultimately give us and our engines additional time to look at each move. Let's see if we can rock the world and win with black!