15k Future? - Page 2

Orgasmic Troll · 2003-07-23, 07:15

Honestly, I haven't been following the thread too closely, because my programming knowledge is very very high-level (in the way that BASIC is high-level, not olympic gold medals high level) and I don't really understand nor care about optimization. That, and I don't really know what 15k is doing nor care, really, I just run Prime95 on my machine and let it do its thing ..

As far as I can tell, there just seems to be some dissention from one of the 15k people about the support he is getting for free software .. I don't really see how 15k people being attached to Prime95 negatively affects anything I do, and if people think that someone is being a pain in the ass, that's fine, I also think that we should be free to occasionally be a pain in someone's ass around here, as long as we're all relatively adult about it.

my $.02

trif · 2003-07-23, 08:13

I notiiced my post after someone else posted to the thread, and notified Xyzzy, who temporarily suspended the moderators for the forum, and inquired about what had happened. He then let me know that TTn said it had been an error, that he had intended to edit his own post. I accepted that as a plausible explanation in the absence of it happening again. I had hoped that this would just pass by.

I don't think the 15K project should be penalized for TTn's conduct (not the editting, that's passed and done with, but the attacks on George). While I am unhappy that he chooses to attack George in such a cowardly way, I don't even think he should be banned, let alone a project that he is a participant in. While he has likened those of us with a great deal of respect for George as George's "cult following", it is actually the case that George has earned that respect through his conduct over many years, something which seems to escape TTn. He seems to believe that the fact that George has made errors or not been able to anticipate all problems as evidence that George is not to be trusted. *All* people make errors, the thing that separates those who deserve respect from those who should be deemed unreliable is how they respond to them. While my respect for TTn is exttremely low due to his conduct on this board, it actually came up a small notch when he honestly admitted that he had made an error, instead of trying to tinfoil hat his way out of it. He obviously knows he makes honest errors, so I don't see why he shouldn't realize that others, including George, can as well.

2003-07-23, 09:09

Coldfury,
Your last post is out of context.
George makes the claim, " We will never know..."

A conspiracy would be hard to proove, IF it were the case.
In time, I will come to a solid conclusion with backup, and admit if/when I am wrong. Though it would be helpful know M40's exponent, since if this really is a generalized mersenne phenomenon, then my investigation of LLR will help.

I plead with the 5 year GIMPS veteran that found M40 on a 1.6 P4, to please tell us the exponent! We promise we wont diss you, or spam you, or do whatever it is that makes you not tell us.

smh · 2003-07-23, 12:50

Quote:

George makes the claim, " We will never know..."

Coz there is no way for George to find out what ever went wrong on the computer of that participant.

Somehow an intermediate result got corrupted, and the many checks in the program missed it. George added a couple of extra checks to prevent this from happening again.

This was not a fault of the program, but something that happend on that participants computer.

kwstone · 2003-07-23, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by trif

While he has likened those of us with a great deal of respect for George as George's "cult following", it is actually the case that George has earned that respect through his conduct over many years, something which seems to escape TTn.

I love the idea of being one of George's "cult following".

Falun GIMPS? :D

Xyzzy · 2003-07-23, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwstone

I love the idea of being one of George's "cult following".

Just don't drink the Kool-Aide!

:D

NickGlover · 2003-07-23, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTn

Though it would be helpful know M40's exponent, since if this really is a generalized mersenne phenomenon, then my investigation of LLR will help.

I plead with the 5 year GIMPS veteran that found M40 on a 1.6 P4, to please tell us the exponent! We promise we wont diss you, or spam you, or do whatever it is that makes you not tell us.

The false positive incident cannot possibly related to the LLR bug. The false positive was not caused by a bug. We know this because it is not repeatable since George ran the exponent on his P4 and did not get the same result (unless you think George is lying about the run on his P4!?).

The false positive was caused by some other issue like a bad driver or hardware problem. The real flaw it showed with Prime95 was NOT that it is possible for a problem computer to get a false prime result. The flaw is that Prime95's error checking did not catch the error and either redo the iteration or give indication to George or Primenet that the run was erroneous.

Therefore, there is no reason for you to need the false positive exponent to investigate the problem. If you wish to help, you can try to think of new suggestions in this thread for error checks that Prime95 might do to catch future false positives before returning them to the server as prime.

ewmayer · 2003-07-23, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickGlover

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTn

Though it would be helpful know M40's exponent, since if this really is a generalized mersenne phenomenon, then my investigation of LLR will help.

I plead with the 5 year GIMPS veteran that found M40 on a 1.6 P4, to please tell us the exponent! We promise we wont diss you, or spam you, or do whatever it is that makes you not tell us.

The false positive incident cannot possibly related to the LLR bug. The false positive was not caused by a bug. We know this because it is not repeatable since George ran the exponent on his P4 and did not get the same result (unless you think George is lying about the run on his P4!?).

I know for a fact that George's own run of the exponent in question was for real, because he was regularly sending me intermediate Res64s which my and Guillermo's runs (using our own programs on definitively non-P4, non-x86 hardware) were confirming soon afterward, once they reached the same point. But since I'm one of George's cult groupies and would clearly do anything to protect the reputation of Mein Fu"hrer, no one should believe anything I have to say on the matter.

I personally would have no problem in revealing the exponent so anyone could run Prime95, Mlucas or Glucas on it and convince themselves tbat it's not a Mersenne prime, but it's not up to me, and I believe George's not releasing it without the say-so of the person whose machine did the original false-prime reporting run is a valid one.

And TTn, given how much you've "dissed" various people involved with the project and participating on this forum, all without any factual basis to support your rumormongering and personal attacks, why would anyone believe you when you promise not to do so now? If the GIMPSer who found "M40" had any inclination to reveal the exponent before you started flaming everyone in sight about their purported involvement in the evil M40 coverup, they have probably lost it as a result of seeing you in action.

Paulie · 2003-07-23, 18:57

As another groupie since 1997, my opinion is TTn needs to check the tude and be a mentsh, or hit the road.

There really is no reason to be confrontational, or chicken little and/or a pain.

trif · 2003-07-24, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewmayer

But since I'm one of George's cult groupies and would clearly do anything to protect the reputation of Mein Fu"hrer, no one should believe anything I have to say on the matter.

Your attendance record at cult meetings is rather spotty. Better shape up or you're out!

:(

kwstone · 2003-07-25, 02:50

Yeah, better go and sacrifice a couple more chickens to George and see if you can read any prime numbers in the entrails.

View Poll Results: Should 15k Search be removed?
18.0-19.0 M	3	0.78%
19.0-20.0 M	7	1.82%
20.0-21.0 M	11	2.86%
21.0-22.0 M	10	2.60%
Elsewhere, missed in DC, below 18 M	10	2.60%
14.4kbps or less to 19.2kbps	2	0.52%
21.6kbps to 26.4kbps	1	0.26%
28.8kbps to 36.0kbps	3	0.78%
38.4kbps to 52.8kbps	14	3.64%
better than dialup	37	9.61%
Less than 16 million	13	3.38%
16 million	5	1.30%
17 million	5	1.30%
18 million	9	2.34%
19 million or more	12	3.12%
Yes! Puzzles stimulate my brain!	29	7.53%
No! I feel stupid enough already!	2	0.52%
My WebTV rocks!	0	0%
640x480...	0	0%
800x600...	5	1.30%
1024x768...	17	4.42%
Higher than 1024x768...	29	7.53%
Yes, that would save me a lot of trouble!	3	0.78%
No, that is just too damn complicated!	14	3.64%
I just poach my exponents so I have no use for this!	3	0.78%
Yes, I like larger exponents!	25	6.49%
No, I will miss the lower exponents.	11	2.86%
What are you talking about? I'm D.C.ing or Factoring.	13	3.38%
I've been doing 33Ms for years!	5	1.30%
P4 INTEL with SSE2	8	2.08%
AMD athlon	3	0.78%
Other (please state)	1	0.26%
Yes!	11	2.86%
No!	4	1.04%
don't care. (but I care enough to say so!)	5	1.30%
Yes	4	1.04%
No	11	2.86%
Should 15k Search be allowed to stay?	24	6.23%
Should 15K Search find a new home and be removed?	16	4.16%
Voters: 385. You may not vote on this poll

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2003-07-23, 07:15	#12
Orgasmic Troll Cranksta Rap Ayatollah Jul 2003 641 Posts	Honestly, I haven't been following the thread too closely, because my programming knowledge is very very high-level (in the way that BASIC is high-level, not olympic gold medals high level) and I don't really understand nor care about optimization. That, and I don't really know what 15k is doing nor care, really, I just run Prime95 on my machine and let it do its thing .. As far as I can tell, there just seems to be some dissention from one of the 15k people about the support he is getting for free software .. I don't really see how 15k people being attached to Prime95 negatively affects anything I do, and if people think that someone is being a pain in the ass, that's fine, I also think that we should be free to occasionally be a pain in someone's ass around here, as long as we're all relatively adult about it. my $.02

2003-07-23, 08:13	#13
trif Aug 2002 2×101 Posts	I notiiced my post after someone else posted to the thread, and notified Xyzzy, who temporarily suspended the moderators for the forum, and inquired about what had happened. He then let me know that TTn said it had been an error, that he had intended to edit his own post. I accepted that as a plausible explanation in the absence of it happening again. I had hoped that this would just pass by. I don't think the 15K project should be penalized for TTn's conduct (not the editting, that's passed and done with, but the attacks on George). While I am unhappy that he chooses to attack George in such a cowardly way, I don't even think he should be banned, let alone a project that he is a participant in. While he has likened those of us with a great deal of respect for George as George's "cult following", it is actually the case that George has earned that respect through his conduct over many years, something which seems to escape TTn. He seems to believe that the fact that George has made errors or not been able to anticipate all problems as evidence that George is not to be trusted. All people make errors, the thing that separates those who deserve respect from those who should be deemed unreliable is how they respond to them. While my respect for TTn is exttremely low due to his conduct on this board, it actually came up a small notch when he honestly admitted that he had made an error, instead of trying to tinfoil hat his way out of it. He obviously knows he makes honest errors, so I don't see why he shouldn't realize that others, including George, can as well.

2003-07-23, 09:09	#14
TTn 13×307 Posts	Coldfury, Your last post is out of context. George makes the claim, " We will never know..." A conspiracy would be hard to proove, IF it were the case. In time, I will come to a solid conclusion with backup, and admit if/when I am wrong. Though it would be helpful know M40's exponent, since if this really is a generalized mersenne phenomenon, then my investigation of LLR will help. I plead with the 5 year GIMPS veteran that found M40 on a 1.6 P4, to please tell us the exponent! We promise we wont diss you, or spam you, or do whatever it is that makes you not tell us.

2003-07-23, 18:57	#20
Paulie Aug 2002 223 Posts	As another groupie since 1997, my opinion is TTn needs to check the tude and be a mentsh, or hit the road. There really is no reason to be confrontational, or chicken little and/or a pain.

2003-07-25, 02:50	#22
kwstone Jun 2003 Shanghai, China 109 Posts	Yeah, better go and sacrifice a couple more chickens to George and see if you can read any prime numbers in the entrails.