Electrical Service Rates

[storm5510]

Originally Posted by bhelmes

A peaceful night for you,

my electric rate in Germany have increased from 33 cent / kwh to 50 cent / kwh from 1.1.2023
I can change my electric company during 14 days, but there are no real alternativs at the time.
There will be support from the german department, which will pay 80% electric rate over 40 cent /kwh

I will make a small "coffee break" until recomputing for Gimps.

All I can say is Wow! What monetary system is this?

I complain about $0.15 per kWh here in the U.S and have closed down some of my systems because of cold weather.

[paulunderwood]

I just received a Kill-a-Watt meter clone. I measured a few things:-

• 3.5w idle Celeron laptop
• 4.4w tube lamp
• 4.9w phone charger
• 3,5w radio
• 5.1w LED lamp
• 9.9w USB HDD
• 2.9w bluetooth speakers
• 1.4w router

I will measure the computer boxes at a convenient time.

[kriesel]

Originally Posted by storm5510

What monetary system is this?
have closed down some of my systems because of cold weather.

Euros most likely.
Shutting down systems because of excellent cooling conditions and additional use for the heating seems backwards to me, but hey, it's your budget, your call. The most economical time to spend a dollar on computing electricity is when the waste heat has comfort heating benefit and the expenditure is subject to no sales tax; the most costly is in the summer when it will be taxed and add to air conditioning load and cost.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by paulunderwood

I just received a Kill-a-Watt meter clone. I measured a few things: ... I will measure the computer boxes at a convenient time.

Excellent! There is nothing quite like the empirical. Ideally using multiple measuring devices (instruments) measuring the same thing. And, then, compare them against each other (and a "ground truth", if you have it) to ensure everyone is sane.

"With a watch, you know what time it is. With two you aren't quite so sure...

8^)

[Mark Rose]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Excellent! There is nothing quite like the empirical. Ideally using multiple measuring devices (instruments) measuring the same thing. And, then, compare them against each other (and a "ground truth", if you have it) to ensure everyone is sane.

"With a watch, you know what time it is. With two you aren't quite so sure...

8^)

I should buy a second Kill-o-watt. My system with the 8 3070s requires two circuits. Would be nice to know how much it's actually using instantaneously.

[mrh]

Originally Posted by kriesel

Euros most likely.
Shutting down systems because of excellent cooling conditions and additional use for the heating seems backwards to me, but hey, it's your budget, your call. The most economical time to spend a dollar on computing electricity is when the waste heat has comfort heating benefit and the expenditure is subject to no sales tax; the most costly is in the summer when it will be taxed and add to air conditioning load and cost.

You are correct, however for me, with rates > $0.55/kwh, resistive heating of any kind, computer some other appliance is an expensive way to make heat. When it was $0.08, sure. But now we must use a heat pump.

But summer really does hurt. When you see my stats go to zero, you'll know it is over 38c at my place :)

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by mrh

You are correct, however for me, with rates > $0.55/kwh, resistive heating of any kind, computer some other appliance is an expensive way to make heat. When it was $0.08, sure. But now we must use a heat pump. ... But summer really does hurt. When you see my stats go to zero, you'll know it is over 38c at my place :)

Sound thinking.

Everyone's use of power is slightly different. I learn from those who have gone before me. And/or, do things slightly differently.

Edit: Just to share... Some find me terribly funny. Others, not so much. Those who pay me tend to find me less than funny...

[storm5510]

Originally Posted by mrh

You are correct, however for me, with rates > $0.55/kwh, resistive heating of any kind, computer some other appliance is an expensive way to make heat. When it was $0.08, sure. But now we must use a heat pump.

But summer really does hurt. When you see my stats go to zero, you'll know it is over 38c at my place :)

$0.55 in California! I don't see how poor people can afford this. I couldn't. Mine starts at $0.15 per kWh, and decreases with usage. A "tier" system, they call it. After 200 kWh, it drops to $0.10 per kWh. The next drop is at 770 kWh. I think it is $0.08 per kWh. Not sure.

I wonder if these rates are based on the size of the grid everyone here is connected to. Duke Energy operates around 100 power plants. A few are nuclear, and the rest are assorted types. Coal, natural gas, and so on.

[mrh]

Originally Posted by storm5510

$0.55 in California! I don't see how poor people can afford this. I couldn't. Mine starts at $0.15 per kWh, and decreases with usage. A "tier" system, they call it. After 200 kWh, it drops to $0.10 per kWh. The next drop is at 770 kWh. I think it is $0.08 per kWh. Not sure.

I wonder if these rates are based on the size of the grid everyone here is connected to. Duke Energy operates around 100 power plants. A few are nuclear, and the rest are assorted types. Coal, natural gas, and so on.

right? Right now it is $0.22 off peak, but $0.50 16:00-21:00. This is the lowest time of year. And that is with an EV "discount". It is more complicated, I have some solar production, but not really after 16:00. Some folks pay much more like $0.84/kwh on peak.

Your tiers prices go down? wow, tiers here go up, significantly. That forced people to go to TOU.

[VBCurtis]

Originally Posted by mrh

Your tiers prices go down? wow, tiers here go up, significantly. That forced people to go to TOU.

This seems strange to me also. I thought the principle was that the lowest tier was kept cheap because even poor people need some amount of power, so let's make it cheap for them (and everyone else too). But higher tiers are more a luxury use- you don't *need* AC at 74F instead of 79, or to run 3 computers, so we'll charge you more for those luxuries and use that extra revenue to offset the near-cost first tier. Edit: then again, some companies charge a monthly "access fee" or infrastructure fee, while others roll it into the power rates. I suppose rolling those fees into the first tier has some logic.

I'm quite fortunate to have a muni power company in my part of CA; rates have hardly changed in 20 years. First tier 11 cents/kwh, second tier 18 or so. I have enough solar to never go above the first tier, and I didn't elect for any time-of-use metering.

Power is cheap enough here to justify electric space heaters as cheaper than gas furnace! My furnace approaches 25 years old, so I'll price a heat pump this spring as an upgrade.

[paulunderwood]

Originally Posted by paulunderwood

I just received a Kill-a-Watt meter clone. I measured a few things:-

• 3.5w idle Celeron laptop
• 4.4w tube lamp
• 4.9w phone charger
• 3,5w radio
• 5.1w LED lamp
• 9.9w USB HDD
• 2.9w bluetooth speakers
• 1.4w router

I will measure the computer boxes at a convenient time.

After measuring at 350w for i3+HDD+R7+2 DIIMMS I moved the R7 (Radeon VII) into the 312w Phi 64 core system resulting in a box that uses 530w plus room fan at 29w to cool it; crunching 1.6 wavefront Mersennes per day until early March! The i3 is obsolete as far as I am concerned. I have yet to measure the 3990x box. My 28" monitor uses 17.8w when showing a screen.