A Change Of Mind

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by xilman

It is now by far my favourite programming language.

Stick with it, in other words, and don't require that you gain instant comprehension.

Indeed! Perl is my language of choice for most situations. I sometimes will prototype in Perl for proof-of-concept work, and then port to C if I need speed, or to protect intellectual property.

My opinion is, like any language, Perl can be easy to read or nearly unassailable. It's up to the programmer if they want their code to be maintainable...

I think the biggest learning curve, and what stops many people, is not Perl itself but rather its tight integration with RegEx. But once you've made friends with that, you can do amazing things with strings really quickly!

[storm5510]

Originally Posted by Nick

It might be worth giving them a second look.
University students who find it difficult typically stumble over things like pointers
- but as you're familiar with assembly programming that won't be a problem
(they're just addresses). My experience of Pascal was that it was more awkward
to use than C, with so many extra (and unnecessary) rules.

Back in my schooling days, Assembly Language was for 8086 processors. This would be a skeleton compared to what there is now, I suspect.

As for C, pointers threw everyone in my class, including me. As I recall, there were no sub's, only functions. At the time, I didn't understand the nesting. Now, I believe I do. One "main" function with all others contained within. I struggled with all the needed declarations at the top. You include only what you need, as Perl does. Knowing what was needed was a problem. Decades of using other languages clarified some of it, but not all.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Indeed! Perl ... or to protect intellectual property.!

Too far off-topic for the present thread, but it is not that hard to protect IP in Perl, depending on the level of protection required within a specific environment.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by chalsall

My opinion is, like any language, Perl can be easy to read or nearly unassailable. It's up to the programmer if they want their code to be maintainable.

Very strongly agree. I have written Perl scripts well in excess of 10K lines of source which cow-orkers with only tourist-level fluency have had no significant difficulty following and modifying if needed.

[storm5510]

Originally Posted by xilman

Too far off-topic for the present thread...

Perhaps, but it is my thread to moderate. I would rather it drift than to continue to discuss what I would feel as being distasteful.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by storm5510

Perhaps, but it is my thread to moderate. I would rather it drift than to continue to discuss what I would feel as being distasteful.

Fairy Nuff: the current standard approach with source-code based distributions is to ship an interface to a networked black box server which is under your complete control.

The previous approach was to insist on non-disclosure and sue your customers into insolvency if their version of your code leaked.

Works as well with Perl as with any other language.

[storm5510]

Originally Posted by Nick

It might be worth giving them a second look.
University students who find it difficult typically stumble over things like pointers
- but as you're familiar with assembly programming that won't be a problem
(they're just addresses). My experience of Pascal was that it was more awkward
to use than C, with so many extra (and unnecessary) rules.

I am seriously considering a second look. The majority of used programs here are console as opposed to GUI. I believe this would be a good place to start. Any recommendations on what to use?

[jwaltos]

Originally Posted by storm5510

The majority of used programs here are console as opposed to GUI. I believe this would be a good place to start. Any recommendations on what to use?

Perhaps this may help and perhaps not, think back to DJGPP, UBasic, Numega, Fravia (iczelion tutorials..) and the like. Around 80/81 in Elec. Eng. we studied a Motorola processor (68000?) in one of the classes at U Windsor. I don't quite remember its version but I do recall it being a challenge. Those were my dumpster diving days where a few of us learned how to utilize and innovate ways to obtain better mainframe access..etc..
Having gotten older but perhaps not growing up enough, before embarking on any conceptual adventures I try to understand the equipment and tools used to fashion them, especially the mathematics. From the physical properties of the materials to making them dance to your tune(s)..a small pun regarding software optimization..you need to know what is mathematically feasible and not. Know and understand your constraints so that you can either work with them, work around them or demolish them with appropriate creativity. Try to prove to yourself what is possible with what you have..you should be able to map out your potential contribution relative to everyone else engaged in the same game.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by storm5510

I am seriously considering a second look. The majority of used programs here are console as opposed to GUI. I believe this would be a good place to start. Any recommendations on what to use?

Our students currently use the book "Absolute C++" by W. Savitch, but it is quite expensive.
Older editions may be available at a lower price.
Various compilers, web resources and books are listed here:
https://isocpp.org/get-started

[storm5510]

Originally Posted by Nick

Our students currently use the book "Absolute C++" by W. Savitch, but it is quite expensive.
Older editions may be available at a lower price.
Various compilers, web resources and books are listed here:
https://isocpp.org/get-started

I looked at your link. Seeing Visual Studio 2017 reminded me of something I have. Visual Studio Express 2008. It has C++ and C#. I sort of doubt I could install it on Windows 10. The disc I have is a DVD+R. Historically, I have not had much luck with +R's. I have a utility program called VSO Inspector which will scan a compact disc. It can do surface scans and file tests.To my surprise, this DVD, burned in 2009, passed both tests.

My issue with Visual Studio programs is all the Dot-Net baggage that must go with them. No stand-alone programs. I will keep on browsing for something practical I can use.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by storm5510

My issue with Visual Studio programs is all the Dot-Net baggage that must go with them. No stand-alone programs.

That is actually no longer entirely true. But, even though I have VS installed on one of my WinBlows development boxen, I still don't use it. I don't like IDEs; I'm a console guy.

Originally Posted by storm5510

I will keep on browsing for something practical I can use.

Make friends with GCC. If you want to explore alternative spaces, look into Clang.

If you like using IDEs, look into Eclipse.