COVID vaccination wavefront

[pinhodecarlos]

I'm sick and tired of people not getting vaccinated, then use my taxes to get treated on the national health service. Go to private sector instead! (Not sure if this statement works in USA)



Also don't complain it is not democratic because you can't chose which vaccine to take, grow up. Problem is much bigger than you think.

[petrw1]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

Please explain.

My uncle, who is in his nineties, got vaccinated after recovering from COVID-19, and said it was just like having COVID-19 all over again.

I've heard about similar cases, too. I'm not sure what to make of this phenomenon. Does it perhaps indicate that the vaccines trigger a different immune response than the body's response to being infected? If so, yes, that would seem to mean a strengthened immunization.

That's a good thing. Yes, that is your immune system recognizing the threat and taking action. That is what your Uncle experienced, not the virus in case he thinks he was infected was a live virus.
I'm not speaking as a Doctor, far from it. Merely repeating a reputable Dr. He also said that studies show those who fully recovered from Covid have a stronger immunity than those who received any of the full vaccines. That suggests your Uncle may not have needed it but they still recommend it because: 1. Well it can't hurt (figuratively speaking). 2. Unless it was obvious that you had Covid and not just a bad cold, the process to test for it is much more difficult and not 100% reliable.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by petrw1

That's a good thing. Yes, that is your immune system recognizing the threat and taking action. That is what your Uncle experienced, not the virus in case he thinks he was infected was a live virus.

He knows the vaccine he got didn't have virus.

The symptomatic immune response to the vaccine still seems notable. It seems that vaccinated (and presumably immunized) people who have subsequently tested positive have not exhibited any symptoms. I'm not sure why someone who has recovered (and is presumably immune) would show symptoms in response to the vaccine.

Since I'm not a physician or immunologist, I can only guess. Perhaps the vaccine delivers a bigger "challenge" than re-infection. Re-infection would probably start with a small number of virus particles. The immune response would likely bring it under control fairly quickly, and then sort of "keep a lazy eye on it."

But the vaccine would deliver a big load of foreign "spike" protein being manufactured all at once, and the immune system response would be, "All hands to battle stations!" And/or the immune system might see the vaccine "challenge" as a different challenge than the original infection, and create different antibodies. I just don't know.

[Batalov]

I am not very deeply knowledgeable in infectious diseases, but what I do know allows me to critically think in an informed fashion. I had listened to many talks (and 40+ weekly Hospital internal zoom townhalls, and those guys are really good; one is on the FDA panel). I digested (without giving proper attribution) multiple sources. the latest of them was a long talk by Prof. K.Chumakov (GWU, FDA), I would give a link but it is all in Russian. In Russia, covid dissidence is an enormous problem, but everyone notes that the same single reason is playing out in nearly every country: there is no single government that doesn't lie (or at least is perceived to lie), and it is universal. So, there are many folks who in effect think "To spite my mother, I will run in the yard without a hat and freeze off my ears." (Russian proverb loses in translation :-) literally: "Назло мамке - отморожу уши".

So, the argument for vaccination after having had covid is relatively new but sound. The main gist of it is that the active covid disease has a distinct path (from vaccination) with one important component is that live virus as part of its own function deliberately weakens your immune system in general and also blinds immune system to itself initially*. So, vaccination really instructs and teaches you immune system without suppressing it. (Rather, it greatly boosts it, so you will for a while have less colds etc.)

After recovering from covid, people are better protected than 'naive' subpopulation but less so than from vaccination. For covid veterans, some vaccines will be better than others - preferably mRNA vaccines; adenovirus-based vaccines not so much but still good to have.
There is also compassionate argument: if you are a covid veteran, get other people vaccinated first and then still do it, - let's say after 3 months or so.

___
*footnote: cancer has the same characteristics! When cancer vaccinations will be available (it is not a fantasy - there is active research for a decade ongoing) also be much better for you than having a cancer and surviving it.

[Uncwilly]

Originally Posted by Batalov

*footnote: cancer has the same characteristics! When cancer vaccinations will be available (it is not a fantasy - there is active research for a decade ongoing) also be much better for you than having a cancer and surviving it.

The HPV vaccine provides preventative benefit against several cancers. Shirely you know that.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by Batalov

<snip>
So, the argument for vaccination after having had covid is relatively new but sound. The main gist of it is that the active covid disease has a distinct path (from vaccination) with one important component is that live virus as part of its own function deliberately weakens your immune system in general and also blinds immune system to itself initially*. So, vaccination really instructs and teaches you immune system without suppressing it.
<snip>
*footnote: cancer has the same characteristics! When cancer vaccinations will be available (it is not a fantasy - there is active research for a decade ongoing) also be much better for you than having a cancer and surviving it.

So, the vaccine creates a specific "challenge" (the "spike protein" with the mRNA vaccines) and your immune system clearly recognizes it as foreign, and responds accordingly. No viral trickery or attack on the immune system.

Meanwhile, a month after my second jab (Moderna), I have had no indication yet of genetic mutation. As you can see, my appearance still remains completely normal

[EdH]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

. . .As you can see, my appearance still remains completely normal

That doesn't quite match your other picture (avatar)!

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by EdH

That doesn't quite match your other picture (avatar)!

It doesn't? I suppose you're going to say it's also different from the identical image here...

[EdH]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

It doesn't? I suppose you're going to say it's also different from the identical image here...

No! I can tell that was just from a different camera.

[ATH]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

There is at least one study underway to determine whether vaccinated people can still be "silently" infected (I have heard of at least one fully vaccinated person who tested positive), and if so, whether the virus they shed is still infectious.

My grandmother is 102 and living in a nursing home in Stockholm. She got her 2nd vaccine mid to late February, but on March 19th she was tested positive, and was isolated. She had slight fever and runny nose just 1-2 days and then nothing. Now she is negative again and out of isolation.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by ATH

Now she is negative again and out of isolation.

Good to hear!