Tomb of debate

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

Quoted from a thread on ECM world records, replying here as I felt it was more relevant to this thread.

Wow! I have to say, seriously impressive.

Thousands of words quoted and said, and nothing communicated.

[lukerichards]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Wow! I have to say, seriously impressive.

Thousands of words quoted and said, and nothing communicated.

Would you like to add something constructive yourself, or are you just make barbed comments?

[xilman]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

Would you like to add something constructive yourself, or are you just make barbed comments?

Originally Posted by chalsall

Wow! I have to say, seriously impressive.

Thousands of words quoted and said, and nothing communicated.

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, this is pot.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

Would you like to add something constructive yourself, or are you just make barbed comments?

Thank you for the invitation.

I don't appreciate the attack.

[lukerichards]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Thank you for the invitation.

I don't appreciate the attack.

In the spirit in which I'd like everyone to respond...

I'm sorry for the attack. It was probably unnecessary and came as a result of some frustration. The frustration was compounded by a message which seemed to be claiming that I was saying nothing of substance while offering nothing of substance either.

Here is what, on reflection, I would like to have written:

Hi Chris, I'm sorry that you feel that I have not made any valuable contribution to this debate here. I do feel that your tone here continues to be antagonistic and I feel that the debate would be much improved if we could try and make our points, as I have said before, without trying to belittle another person in the process. As I said at the end of my last post, if there's anything you think I'd specifically do well to respond to, please do let me know.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by xilman

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, this is pot.

Yeah. This was a bit like the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

Not quite certain if the cat was dead or alive, until you lifted the lid and looked at it.

[Uncwilly]

Originally Posted by jwaltos

Uncwilly,

Assuming you have followed my PM'd request you can see just how naive I was at that time.
......
That being said, you'll never need to show me the way out as I have already stepped out that door once and will have no problem doing it again. Just follow through on your word because I will be one of those forum members holding you to it. And if you fall down even once, I'll re-post what took place and I will leave this forum on that note. Do we have an understanding?

Originally Posted by Uncwilly

We don't want a forum full of Fritz Zwicky's. I want 16 year old female math students to feel like they can be a part of this forum. If you don't, I can show you the way out.

I followed through with your request.

When you quoted me you did not quote the immediately preceding bit. I have bolded it in the quote here. I want this forum to be a place where people that want to learn about math and programming can come to, no matter their age or gender or race. (Obviously a 5 year old just learning to add and subtract would be better suited to learn in person.) If this forum existed in my youth it would have been great. But, my female classmates might have been put off from the field by the treatment they might have received. Nurturing is good.

Not every post on the forum needs the answer from a PhD or the like. Some questions can be dealt with by duffers like me. As we go further along in school our teachers tend to have more years of study in the field. When we start learning it is good to have someone there that was in the same place recently. If every time a newbie that is askew is hammered on by a PhD, that doesn't help the newbie. Crushing the soul is bad.

Those that don't think that this forum should be a place where people should be guided along as opposed to beaten down, need to think about why they feel that way. If you were "just brought up that way", that is not valid. If it is because it helps you feel superior, again not valid. If it is because it keeps "the unwashed masses" out, that is not valid either.

Several top scientist have been censured because of their behaviour. Allowing a "great man" to get away with things, at the cost of extinguishing future bright lights, is no longer being tolerated in a number of fields.

No matter what the forum may have been like in the past, let's move forward in the future, to forum that welcomes all, no matter where they come from or who they are.

If I mis-behave, call me on it. If I do something culturally insensitive, how can I improve if I don't know what I did. If I do something wrong in a moment of weakness, call me on it. That way I can repent in the open and show others what is wrong. If we are silent about other's bad behaviour, we give silent consent.

Let's not tweak anyone else's nose verbally, or otherwise (nor any other body parts). It would do each of us well to review the first post in this thread.

[LaurV]

Uh, I finally succeeded to read this thread "da capo al fine".
Daily life catching with me. I let you unsupervised for few days and look what you all are doing here...

Funny how my (non native English) eyes tricked me here, but not by much, I have just read the title of the topic like "tons of debate"...
In my native language, "ton", "tone", as well as the "metric ton" (or "tonne") and the "tuna" fish are all called the same: "ton".

I should not say anything in this topic, because generally I am one of the guys with the colored language here. I mean I don't mind using it, neither reading it, if it helps delivering the intended message.

However, I must say I am with Luke here. The quote was taken out of context, and the ban was not deserved. Generally, some guy from the web which I don't know personally, and he doesn't know me personally, can not upset me, whatever he will say. I know I am idiot and my momma is fat, but that is no reason why we shouldn't try to keep a civilized tone of the discussion.

However, people visiting us have to understand that a forum like this inevitable attracts a lot of cranks and trolls (censored allegory with the flies and the shit)**. We don't want them here, and the easiest way is just to shoo them off. Some of them are willing to learn, and will get over it, they will stay. I am one of them. Others will pick up their toys and leave. No loss.


---------
** this is how we found out that the strike tag inside of the spoiler tag does not work. Neither viceversa... but viceversa would be no use anyhow... or... would it be? hehe

[jwaltos]

When you're dead. You don't know you're dead. It's only difficult and painful for others. The same applies when you're stupid.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Thanks Uncwilly for following through. The link to the thread is on point and your openness is refreshing since that is the kind of thing that will build the reputation of a forum and attract new members.
In my opinion, being a moderator should be more of a teacher or guide rather than a referee addressing transgressions of one sort or another and the bar is set higher accordingly. And thank you for the time you put in here which may be onerous at times but is rewarding.

Originally Posted by chalsall

..With all due respect, not a huge loss....

You are correct in your observation since my contributions here have been minimal at best.

[Till]

Originally Posted by Uncwilly

But, this forum has a continuous influx of new people. Some of them young students. We want to build them up, not frighten them. We don't want a forum full of Fritz Zwicky's. I want 16 year old female math students to feel like they can be a part of this forum.

I really support that stance. And I agree that jwaltos' citation was leaving out important parts.



On the other hand, I think that there are forum members that have more offending posts than jwaltos has in total.



The problem I see is that there has established a culture or even competition of "who gets the best pun" at the expense of others not knowing enough math.


I do not mind if trolls and click-baiters are scared away that way, but it should not apply to people that seriously want to understand something...

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by Uncwilly

All non-ECM posts moved to this thread: https://mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=24213

Just in case it isn't clear, I'm trying to test the patience of the mods.

The fact I've been demoted to "only human" is a bit amusing.

I might take my ball and go home as well.