Non-ECM posts pulled from ECM question thread.

[lukerichards]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Please elaborate.

All are welcome, but don't make claims which can't be supported with demonstrated facts.

An exacting community. Deal with it.

https://mersenneforum.org/showpost.p...63&postcount=2

This is a case in point.

[Batalov]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

I feared that if I just said "is this fact up to date?" somebody would come back with a withering "it's not a fact if its out of date, is it?"

Really? Someone would say that? In the words of the Dude, "well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Pythagorean theorem is >2000 years old but nobody doubts that it is a fact.
Bob Beamon's 1968 long jump is still a fact, even after been beaten in 1991. (and it is still not beaten after 50 years as the second longest jump ever).

ecm is a random process that is known to produce hits of up to +10 digits to the median expected size of a factor. So when you hit a lucky curve, you can wait for another lucky curve for 10-20 years, easily. Much like the Beamon's jump. Did Beamon continue jumping 8.90m regularly, or perhaps even continued to add to his record? not really.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

https://mersenneforum.org/showpost.p...63&postcount=2

This is a case in point.

Interesting...

Within sixty seconds of my post I was called out for being inappropriate.

I work with AIs and spiders every single day.

Is there any chance you guys are being disingenuous?

[lukerichards]

Originally Posted by Batalov

Really? Someone would say that? In the words of the Dude, "well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Pythagorean theorem is >2000 years old but nobody doubts that it is a fact.
Bob Beamon's 1968 long jump is still a fact, even after been beaten in 1991. (and it is still not beaten after 50 years as the second longest jump ever).

ecm is a random process that is known to produce hits of up to +10 digits to the median expected size of a factor. So when you hit a lucky curve, you can wait for another lucky curve for 10-20 years, easily. Much like the Beamon's jump. Did Beamon continue jumping 8.90m regularly, or perhaps even continued to add to his record? not really.

1) You've clearly misread what I've said
2) It is evident that having misread it, you have - like many others before you - defaulted to a rude and antagonistic tone, which is unnecessary and exclusive.
3) What I said was that I feared that people would point out that an "out of date" statement was not a 'fact' any more. This is different from saying that an "old" statement is not a fact. Out of date means defunct. The implication in this being that the statement on the website was not up-to-date.
4) Your last paragraph presumes a certain level of understanding about ECM that others might not have. It's really not welcoming to be so confrontational to people when the 'ignorance' is in fact a lack of deep understanding of number theory.
5) I am however well aware of the quasi-randomness of the ECM process and this being the case, I would usually expect the progress in computing technology to have advanced the record in the years since. While not impossible, it is however surprising, as others have noted.

And lastly...

6) I still cannot believe that the stock response of so many people on this forum is "Urgh this guy doesn't know sh*t, let's be rude to him about that."

[lukerichards]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Interesting...

Within sixty seconds of my post I was called out for being inappropriate.

I work with AIs and spiders every single day.

Is there any chance you guys are being disingenuous?

Not sure what you're getting at? As it happens, I agree with you on that post, I just think it was quite rude and exclusive the way you worded it.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

As it happens, I agree with you on that post, I just think it was quite rude and exclusive the way you worded it.

My apologies.

Please accept my apologies.

[Batalov]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

And lastly...

6) I still cannot believe that the stock response of so many people on this forum is "Urgh this guy doesn't know sh*t, let's be rude to him about that."

The more you will be putting in other people's mouths what is in your head, the more you will find that people shrug their shoulders and press the 'Ignore' button.

[lukerichards]

Originally Posted by Batalov

The more you will be putting in other people's mouths what is in your head, the more you will find that people shrug their shoulders and press the 'Ignore' button.

That's quite rude as well.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

That's quite rude as well.

While you might not like it, some people will be rude.

How you manage the rudeness is a reasonable function of the goodness of the participants.

[lukerichards]

Originally Posted by chalsall

While you might not like it, some people will be rude.

How you manage the rudeness is a reasonable function of the goodness of the participants.

I understand this and thank you for the civil response. While we may have clashed here and elsewhere, I genuinely appreciate that manner elegance with which you make your points.

Perhaps I just come at this from a different perspective as others. As an educator I want more people not just to join the community, but to enjoy being part of the community. Rudeness with a frequency that I see does not encourage new members. I have not only spent the second half of my professional career dealing with teenagers, I spent the first half of it in political election campaigning. Believe it or not, I have a thicker skin than a rhino and don't take any of this to heart - I'm not the snowflake I may present as being.

But I do know what an unwelcoming community looks like...

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by lukerichards

I understand this and thank you for the civil response. While we may have clashed here and elsewhere, I genuinely appreciate that manner elegance with which you make your points.

Thank you for that. Sincerely.

While it was not always enjoyable, I was raised in an environment where everything said or done was viscously reviewed.

Just to share, my context was pilots, managers and engineers. People died if they didn't do their jobs correctly.

"The Prince" was once a Christmas gift....