Worldwide Nightmare Theatre, Empire of Chaos Enhanced and Expanded

[Till]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

If Putin had "blackmail material," IMO Il Duce simply wouldn't care. What seems much more likely to me is, Putin is dealing with Il Duce as what he is -- a narcissist.

Hmhm "a narcissist wouldn't care about blackmail material" ?

[wombatman]

I know the idea that Russia hacked (or attempted to hack) into various things in order to screw with the 2016 election is not necessarily well-received, but for posterity, here's Mueller's indictment against the 12 Russians accused of doing just that: https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download (it goes to a PDF)

Some highlights include real-time monitoring of DNC staff computers as well as keylogging of DCCC staff. Targeted hacking attempts at all levels of the fed gov't. To be taken with a huge grain of salt, obviously, but important to digest as well.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by Till

Hmhm "a narcissist wouldn't care about blackmail material" ?

The usual kind of blackmail material based on human foibles wouldn't concern him at all. Why should it, after his remarks on that tour bus didn't sink his campaign? Being a narcissist, his attitude is, "The rules don't apply to me."

Besides which, he thinks his supporters are so loyal, they wouldn't care. Remember, he did say during the campaign that "“I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters.”

[kladner]

Tom Engelhardt is always worth reading when he steps out of his editorial role. Sometimes, I can't bring myself to read his personal essays, as I so dread the truths which his wisdom perceives. I recommend this one for its marvelous parallelism and metaphoric power, as well as Tom's discussion of the Three Failures.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/1764...ailing_world_/

There was a period in my later life when I used to say that, from the age of 20 to my late sixties, I was always 40 years old; I was, that is, an old young man and a young old one. Tell that to my legs now. Of course, there’s nothing faintly strange in such a development. It’s the most ordinary experience in life: to face your own failing self, those muscles that no longer work the way they used to, those brain cells jumping ship with abandon and taking with them so many memories, so much knowledge you’d rather keep aboard. If you’re of a certain age -- I just turned 74 -- you know exactly what I mean.

And that, as they say, is life. In a sense, each of us might, sooner or later, be thought of as a kind of failed experiment that ends in the ultimate failure: death.

And in some ways, the same thing might be said of states and empires. Sooner or later, there comes a moment in the history of the experiment when those muscles start to falter, those brain cells begin jumping ship, and in some fashion, spectacular or not, it all comes tumbling down. And that, as they say (or should say), is history. Human history, at least.

[tServo]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

The usual kind of blackmail material based on human foibles wouldn't concern him at all. Why should it, after his remarks on that tour bus didn't sink his campaign? Being a narcissist, his attitude is, "The rules don't apply to me."

Besides which, he thinks his supporters are so loyal, they wouldn't care. Remember, he did say during the campaign that "“I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters.”

I agree, Dr. Sardonicus. What Putin has on tRump is something he DOES care about: money. It would be something like tRump is into Putin for some serious cash and if he defaults or Putin calls in the loans, then the tRump real estate "empire" implodes and the Donald with it.

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by tServo

I agree, Dr. Sardonicus. What Putin has on tRump is something he DOES care about: money. It would be something like tRump is into Putin for some serious cash and if he defaults or Putin calls in the loans, then the tRump real estate "empire" implodes and the Donald with it.

And those dastardly Rooskies are so gosh-darned sneaky that no evidence whatsoever of such debts owed ever appeared in any of Trump Inc financials. But hey, why bother looking into the low-risk branding-based way Trump uses for most of his current RE empire - perhaps having learned from his yuuge bankruptcy years ago - when the ghost of the late Sen McCarthy can be freely invoked to explain away why Her-Turn-Hillary lost, beside the obvious reasons of being a horrible establishment-candidate in a year when the electorate was crying out for any kind of credible promise of change, totally blowing off campaigning amongst the Deplorables of the Rust Belt, the Clinton-owned DNC flagrantly cheating an actual populist candidate out of the nomination and thereby pissing off millions of his progressive followers, etc?

Methinks the next edition of the DSM needs a new entry for "Trump Derangement Syndrome".

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

And those dastardly Rooskies are so gosh-darned sneaky that no evidence whatsoever of such debts owed ever appeared in any of Trump Inc financials.

Read his financial disclosures, have you? Good for you! Of course, those disclosures have been vetted by lawyers and accountants, so they might not reveal anything unseemly in any obvious way.

Or are you privy to information that hasn't been made publicly available -- like, say, Il Duce's tax returns?

Outrageous rumor has it that Allen Weisselberg has been subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury as part of the investigation into Michael Cohen (which is, if memory serves, not part of Mueller's investigation, being something his office came across but handed off as something meriting investigation by DOJ, but not by their office).

Quite a while back (last year sometime, I think late summer or early fall), there was public speculation that Robert Mueller may have already gotten Il Duce's tax returns.

[Prime95]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

Outrageous rumor...

public speculation...

This is what I do not understand about the anti-Trumpers. Why resort to rumors and speculations in attacking Trump? This is no different than the far right's attack of Obama on his birth certificate.

Trump is a vile enough human being backing many loathsome policies that you have ample ammunition to attack him with verifiable facts and quotes.

Should the Cohen or Mueller investigations turn up new facts regarding Trump misdeeds, then by all means use them.

[xilman]

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by Prime95

This is what I do not understand about the anti-Trumpers. Why resort to rumors and speculations in attacking Trump? This is no different than the far right's attack of Obama on his birth certificate.

Trump is a vile enough human being backing many loathsome policies that you have ample ammunition to attack him with verifiable facts and quotes.

Should the Cohen or Mueller investigations turn up new facts regarding Trump misdeeds, then by all means use them.

Well, the "outrageous rumor" about Allen Weisselberg being subpoenaed as a witness by the grand jury in the Cohen investigation has been reported by everyone from CNN to the Wall Street Journal. I don't see how this reportage can reasonably be interpreted as an "attack" on Il Duce. Likewise with last year's reports that Mueller might have access to Il Duce's tax returns. How is that an attack on Il Duce?

I don't know what Allen Weisselberg might have to say to the grand jury. I don't know what use Mueller might make of Il Duce's tax returns. One obvious possibility is he would use them to "follow the money." Another is, he could make them part of his report about whether Il Duce abused his authority to obstruct the investigation.

[Prime95]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

... Mueller might ...

...he could...

Again dealing with speculations rather than abundant available facts on other issues.

My post was not targeted at you per se, but anti-Trumpers in general. I am no fan of Donald Trump, but I will not accuse him of Russian collusion, treason, or obstruction without more proof than is presently available.