Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 9 discussion

[axn]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

I let Stockfish 6 look over night on several consecutive moves.

Originally Posted by MooMoo2

* You may use an older version of Stockfish. Versions 1, 2, and 3 are allowed and may be downloaded at: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/75gzfgu7qo94pvh/NlXX-QLGu6

Per the rules, you may not use any version of SF newer than Version 3.

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by axn

Per the rules, you may not use any version of SF newer than Version 3.

Your statement is a logical fallacy based on the quote that you posted. It states that versions 1, 2, and 3 are allowed. It states nothing about versions 4, 5, and 6. It then went on to state that you could download versions 1, 2, and 3 at that particular link.

It has been my understanding all along that we could use versions of SF that are older than the current version, which is SF 7. When I read the statement that you posted, I effectively read it as "An older version of Stockfish than the current version is allowed and here are links to the three oldest versions."

If my understanding is incorrect, then I guess the game is null and void at this point. My apologies if I have broken the rules.

Edit: Even without using an engine, I would recommend 9...b5 here just based on what the DB's are showing.

[MooMoo2]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

Your statement is a logical fallacy based on the quote that you posted. It states that versions 1, 2, and 3 are allowed. It states nothing about versions 4, 5, and 6. It then went on to state that you could download versions 1, 2, and 3 at that particular link.

It has been my understanding all along that we could use versions of SF that are older than the current version, which is SF 7.

If that is not the case, then I guess the game is null and void at this point. My apologies if I have broken the rules.

This was clarified later based on: http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpos...95&postcount=1

Any engine(s) may be used, except for versions of Stockfish more recent than Stockfish 3.

I'll let this one slide for now since a lot of opening books go this far and since the initial proposed rules didn't explicitly forbid SF 6. But from now on, no SF versions more recent than SF 3 may be used.

Gary, you can still contribute to the discussion for future moves if you uninstall SF 6 (or at least promise not to use it). For this move, everyone is free to make use of the analysis you posted.

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by MooMoo2

This was clarified later based on: http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpos...95&postcount=1


Gary, you can still contribute to the discussion for future moves if you uninstall SF 6 (or at least promise not to use it). For this move, everyone is free to make use of the analysis you posted.

OK, I missed that later post that was more clear. My apologies. I'm uninstalling SF 6 now and will install SF 3 instead.

Edit: I also installed the free Komodo 8. I believe it is from 2014. If anyone is willing to pay about $60 for Komodo 10, it appears to be the strongest ranked program in the world

[axn]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

OK, I missed that later post that was more clear. My apologies. I'm uninstalling SF 6 now and will install SF 3 instead.

Edit: I also installed the free Komodo 8.

K8 is much stronger than SF3. In fact, as per the stipulations of the game, I believe this would be strongest free, publicly available engine.

[MooMoo2]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

If anyone is willing to pay about $60 for Komodo 10, it appears to be the strongest ranked program in the world

I'll paypal you or anyone else $30/half of the cost* (whichever is less) right after this game ends if black wins this game. It's up to you whether you think it's a risk worth taking

*only one payment will be made. If 10 people buy Komodo, I won't be paying $30 to each of those 10 people.

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

9...Rb8 is not in the opening DB that I am looking at. Once again this allows 10. Nc4. I feel like allowing white to extract the knight so quickly is not in our best interests. We should make him work to extract it.

The whole key of his attack with the horses is the wrong position of our king compared with that rook. 9... Rb8 fixes the problem. 10. Nc4 b5 is (in my opinion) a better variant for us than 9... b5. Look to that board, it kills all white's game. After 11. Bxf6 Qxf6 (now we can take with the queen!**) white can do nothing with the horses and we didn't destroy our castling neither uncovered the king's flank. If 12. Nd5, then ...Qg6 13. Nce3 Ne7 14. Qd3 Nxd5 15. Nxd5 Be7. Can he afford the check to c7 to kill the castling? I think not. Then we may castle safely and we play for win.

** if the rook stays on a8, we could not take with the queen, b6 remains uncovered and he can threat the rook and bring the other horse in d5 to defend. The rock move changes all the game...

[gd_barnes]

9...Rb8 looks somewhat interesting but here is what I think to be a little better line for white:

9...Rb8 10. Nc4 b5 11. Bxf6 Qxf6 12. Ne3

Komodo shows about a +.45 to +.5 advantage for white here with likely best choices for us of Qg6, Qd8, Qh4, g6, and Be7.

With most variations of a 9...b5 move by us, after 10. Bxf6 g6 11. Nd5 f5 Komodo shows closer to a +.2 advantage for white. In looking over those lines, in many of them we move our bishop to the hole at g7, castle king side, and we still have good protection for our king.

With Rb8, I'm not sure if I'm fond of having our queen lose a tempo in so many of these variations.

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

With most variations of a 9...b5 move by us, after 10. Bxf6 g6 11. Nd5 f5 Komodo shows closer to a +.2 advantage for white.

In case it isn't obvious, this should have said 9...b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5 f5.

In other news, I have decided to purchase Komodo 10. It is $59.96. I'll take MooMoo up on his offer to pay $29.98 of it if we win.

[LaurV]

12 Nf3 is shown by Rybka too, as being the best move, but that is the goal, to get rid of those horses there.

OTOH, a SF - Rybka - Komodo tournament, "with a man behind" (as we currently play, but made as a tournament, with more games, eventually different openings, and playing both white and black versions of the same opening) would be extremely interesting. Unfortunately none of us has the time for that, I imagine. Me not, for sure.

And I still like Rb8 more