The Right Way to Keep Bare Gubs - Page 29

kladner · 2016-05-12, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyzzy

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2634153

What a revolting creep, as if we didn't already know!

kladner · 2016-06-12, 16:54

http://fox40.com/2016/06/12/police-5...club-shooting/

Quote:

Approximately 50 people were killed inside Pulse, a gay nightclub, Orlando Police Chief John Mina and other officials said Sunday morning, just hours after a shooter opened fire in what appears to be the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. At least 53 more people were injured, he said. Police have shot and killed the gunman, Mina told reporters.

“It’s appears he was organized and well-prepared,” the chief said, adding that the shooter had an assault-type weapon, a handgun and “some type of (other) device on him.”

Of course, it would be cynically politicizing a tragedy to talk about gun control at such a time.

Nick · 2016-06-12, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kladner

http://fox40.com/2016/06/12/police-5...club-shooting/

Of course, it would be cynically politicizing a tragedy to talk about gun control at such a time.

From The Guardian:

Quote:

The two presumptive nominees for president have each responded to the mass shooting. The Democrat expressed solidarity with the victims and the Republican thanked his followers for “the congrats” for talking about his fears of terrorism.

only_human · 2016-06-12, 20:31

There has been a NRA lobbied ban on the CDC researching gun violence since 1996. It's hard to form coherent policies when people don't want to know the answers. This policy rider has been on every budget since then. There was a move to remove the ban in 2015 but I think it got quashed. So mostly we just talk about statistics painfully amassed by newspapers.

Three years ago, 'President Obama ordered the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to get back to studying “the causes of gun violence.”' I don't think anything happened from that and I'm not sure how that holds up against congress anyway.

This is from January: Senators Take A Small Stab At Ending The Ban On Gun Violence Research. As we know this is an election year so that has and will have its own influence on actions. Since we didn't do anything after Sandy Hook though, I don't think we will do anything now either.

only_human · 2016-06-12, 23:44

11 days before the Orlando shooting, President Obama was asked about gun control. His response was perfect.

Quote:

The questioner, a gun shop owner named Doug Rhude, asked President Obama:

Quote:

Knowing that we apply common sense to other issues in our society, specifically like holding irresponsible people accountable for their actions when they drink and drive and kill somebody, or when they text on a cellphone and drive and kill somebody…why then do you and Hillary want to control and restrict and limit gun manufacturers, gun owners, and responsible use of guns and ammunition to the rest of us, the good guys, instead of holding the bad guys accountable for their actions?

President Obama paused for a second, then responded (emphasis mine):

Quote:

First of all, the notion that I or Hillary or Democrats, or whoever you want to choose, are hell-bent on taking away folks’ guns is just not true — and I don’t care how many times the NRA says it. I’m about to leave office. There have been more guns sold since I’ve been President than just about any time in U.S. history. There are enough guns for every man, woman and child in this country. And at no point have I ever proposed confiscating guns from responsible gun owners. So it’s just not true.

What I have said is precisely what you suggested, which is why don’t we treat this like every other thing that we use? We used to have really bad auto fatality rates. The auto fatality rate has actually dropped precipitously, drastically, since I was a kid. Why is that? We decided we had seatbelt laws. We decided to have manufacturers put airbags in place. We decided to crack down on drunk driving and texting. We decided to redesign roads so that they were less likely to have a car bank. We studied what is causing these fatalities using science and data and evidence, and then we slowly treated it like the public health problem it was, and it got reduced.

We are not allowed to do any of that when it comes to guns because people — if you propose anything, it is suggested that we’re trying to wipe away gun rights and impose tyranny and martial law. Do you know that Congress will not allow the Centers for Disease Control to study gun violence? They’re not allowed to study it because the notion is, is that by studying it, the same way we do with traffic accidents, somehow that’s going to lead to everybody’s gun being confiscated.

When we talked about background checks — if you buy a car, if you want to get a license, first of all, you got to get a license. You have to take a test. People have to know that you know how to drive. You don’t have to do any of that with respect to buying a gun. And we talked about doing effective background checks. It was resisted because the notion was we were going to take your guns away.

I just came from a meeting today in the Situation Room in which I’ve got people who we know have been on ISIL websites, living here in the United States, U.S. citizens, and we’re allowed to put them on the no-fly list when it comes to airlines, but because of the National Rifle Association, I cannot prohibit those people from buying a gun. This is somebody who is a known ISIL sympathizer. And if he wants to walk into a gun store or a gun show right now and buy as many weapons and ammo as he can, nothing is prohibiting him from doing that, even though the FBI knows who that person is.

So, sir, I just have to say respectfully that there is a way for us to have common-sense gun laws. There is a way for us to make sure that lawful, responsible gun owners like yourself are able to use it for sporting, hunting, and protecting yourself. But the only way we’re going to do that is if we don’t have a situation in which anything that is proposed is viewed as some tyrannical destruction of the Second Amendment. And that’s how the issue too often gets framed.

The bold emphasis is directly from the quoted article. This is a fairly large quote from an article but other than the bold emphasis and elipses and the first sentence it is entirely a transcription of the YouTube clip below from the PBS NewsHour.
http://youtu.be/6imFvSua3Kg

ewmayer · 2016-06-13, 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

From The Guardian:

Quote:

The two presumptive nominees for president have each responded to the mass shooting. The Democrat expressed solidarity with the victims and the Republican thanked his followers for “the congrats” for talking about his fears of terrorism.

Strikes me as a rather tendentious take. Here is Hillary on the terrorism angle - please tell me how this is materially different than the above description of "what Trump said":

Presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton Sunday termed the Orlando massacre an "act of terror" and called for stronger efforts to defeat international terrorism.

So, go blow up a few more ME or predominantly-Muslim countries, then? That would certainly be putting her much-self-touted "experience" to work.

And the following tweet is the first thing I saw attributed to The Donald on reading about the Orlando massacre:

Horrific incident in FL. Praying for all the victims & their families. When will this stop? When will we get tough, smart & vigilant?

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 12, 2016

only_human · 2016-06-13, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewmayer

Strikes me as a rather tendentious take. Here is Hillary on the terrorism angle - please tell me how this is materially different than the above description of "what Trump said":

The difference is Trump's annoyingly self-congratulatory boosterism.
Trump gets more heat for self-congratulatory Tweet

Quote:

As NBC pointed out, Trump offered similar tweets following the shooting at a church in Charleston, S.C., one year ago; the Paris attacks last November; the San Bernardino, Calif., shooting last December; and the Brussels attacks in March.

Thank you @JakeTapper for giving me credit for my vision on bombing the oil fields. Should have been done long ago. #Trump2016

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 13, 2015
Thank you CBS & Breitbart-total vindication! Will the mainstream media apologize? Many, many witnesses. #Trump2016 https://t.co/AsxnfFWipJ

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 2, 2015
I have proven to be far more correct about terrorism than anybody- and it’s not even close. Hopefully AZ and UT will be voting for me today!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 22, 2016
The tragedy in South Carolina is incomprehensible. My deepest condolences to all.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 18, 2015
A few minutes later Trump turned the conversation to himself.

Watch my appearance on @Morning_Joe - great interview! http://t.co/ZVftDka774

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 18, 2015

Being perceived as tendentious is ok in the Soapbox. Not only may we have opinions, we get to try promote them.

Quote:

ten·den·tious /tenˈdenSHəs/ adjective
expressing or intending to promote a particular cause or point of view, especially a controversial one.
"a tendentious reading of history"

kladner · 2016-06-14, 03:57

I snarled at the radio all during the NPR afternoon series, which here, is mostly talk, including an hour of BBC World. This leads into All Things Considered, which was MUCH more infuriating.

kladner · 2016-06-14, 16:43

For me, this story was vastly overshadowed by the Orlando massacre. This was the one which really set off my workplace security measures.

The following is a bit I wrote first to a friend outside this group. I have shared it with people here via PM. Having been encouraged to share it more widely, I'll put it up here. My thanks to everyone here for their kindness.

It's been weird, given where I work (large LGBTQ social services agency), since Orlando. I came in to work the afternoon following, and everybody was on high alert, with extra security. I had not thought about the implications of the story until then. I was asked if I wanted to put in a few extra hours for the vigil at the Center, but on a day off, as this was, I try to chart a course of multiple chores, which are hard to disengage from. This includes what I told my superior when he called, "I'm expected to have dinner on the table!" I did walk up there after dinner and listen and watch for a bit. The action was inside the lobby, and there was a speaker by the front doors, bit it wasn't near loud enough. I mainly wanted to check things out, and possibly be seen by other Center people.

Yesterday, our regular security people were granted special dispensation to put on their "gear": Kevlar vest, cuffs, gun, and I'm not sure what else. Pepper spray, for sure. (The agency which provides the Center's, and [redacted] security, is run by a cop, and it seems that all their officers are cops of one description or another.) The ones who are able to adapt to our special demands (dealing calmly with in-your-face youths, checking for too many feet in restroom stalls.....) are pretty nice people. Still, I am watchful: first on myself, but also on the Security who are under my authority when I am on the job. I have resisted certain language in my thoughts and work-related reports, because I saw that I was getting too much into the cop mindset. The word "compliance" carries much of that gestalt.

An added note regarding security: Normally, they are totally dressed down without the outward trappings mentioned above.

Spherical Cow · 2016-06-17, 22:10

Recently, the governor of Arizona (where I live) signed legislation that eased professional registration of some careers. You still need a degree and a state license to practice law, of course, and medicine. Plus a host of others. But you no longer need a license to be a yoga instructor, a geologist, a citrus fruit packer, or a cremationist. I had no idea you had to have a license to be a citrus fruit packer. And I have no idea whether non-citrus fruit packers are still licensed, or if they never were.

Anyway, one of the things you still need a license for in Arizona is giving massages to dogs. A woman here has been sent a “Cease and Desist” order because she started a doggie massage business. She’s been told she’ll be fined $1000 per Swedish massage, regardless of whether it’s a Chihuahua, dachshund, poodle, or St. Bernard. No massages. She needs years of education, a degree, and a license from the state.

Meanwhile, anyone off the street can, in about 15 minutes or so, buy a semi-automatic weapon, and a few days later, kill 49 innocent people in a nightclub in just a few hours, or 20 little children and a half dozen teachers at an elementary school in a matter of minutes, or a dozen or so in a theater even faster.

That's Arizona- Strict, rigid, state control of those dangerous doggie masseuses. Thoughtfully amend the laws regarding the citrus fruit packers. But modify a 200 year old amendment about guns that is clearly out-of-date in these modern times? Sorry- our legislature is more concerned with curbing rampant doggie massages.

Norm
(Sorry- Arizona is about to be hit with another heat wave, so I'm venting early to relieve some pressure.)

only_human · 2016-06-17, 22:32

Family of AR-15 Inventor Eugene Stoner: He Didn't Intend It for Civilians

2016-06-12, 20:31	#312
only_human "Gang aft agley" Sep 2002 2·1,877 Posts	There has been a NRA lobbied ban on the CDC researching gun violence since 1996. It's hard to form coherent policies when people don't want to know the answers. This policy rider has been on every budget since then. There was a move to remove the ban in 2015 but I think it got quashed. So mostly we just talk about statistics painfully amassed by newspapers. Three years ago, 'President Obama ordered the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to get back to studying “the causes of gun violence.”' I don't think anything happened from that and I'm not sure how that holds up against congress anyway. This is from January: Senators Take A Small Stab At Ending The Ban On Gun Violence Research. As we know this is an election year so that has and will have its own influence on actions. Since we didn't do anything after Sandy Hook though, I don't think we will do anything now either. Last fiddled with by only_human on 2016-06-12 at 20:32

2016-06-14, 03:57	#316
kladner "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 2·3·1,693 Posts	I snarled at the radio all during the NPR afternoon series, which here, is mostly talk, including an hour of BBC World. This leads into All Things Considered, which was MUCH more infuriating. Last fiddled with by kladner on 2016-06-14 at 04:05

2016-06-14, 16:43	#317
kladner "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 27AE₁₆ Posts	That other incident in LA For me, this story was vastly overshadowed by the Orlando massacre. This was the one which really set off my workplace security measures. The following is a bit I wrote first to a friend outside this group. I have shared it with people here via PM. Having been encouraged to share it more widely, I'll put it up here. My thanks to everyone here for their kindness. It's been weird, given where I work (large LGBTQ social services agency), since Orlando. I came in to work the afternoon following, and everybody was on high alert, with extra security. I had not thought about the implications of the story until then. I was asked if I wanted to put in a few extra hours for the vigil at the Center, but on a day off, as this was, I try to chart a course of multiple chores, which are hard to disengage from. This includes what I told my superior when he called, "I'm expected to have dinner on the table!" I did walk up there after dinner and listen and watch for a bit. The action was inside the lobby, and there was a speaker by the front doors, bit it wasn't near loud enough. I mainly wanted to check things out, and possibly be seen by other Center people. Yesterday, our regular security people were granted special dispensation to put on their "gear": Kevlar vest, cuffs, gun, and I'm not sure what else. Pepper spray, for sure. (The agency which provides the Center's, and [redacted] security, is run by a cop, and it seems that all their officers are cops of one description or another.) The ones who are able to adapt to our special demands (dealing calmly with in-your-face youths, checking for too many feet in restroom stalls.....) are pretty nice people. Still, I am watchful: first on myself, but also on the Security who are under my authority when I am on the job. I have resisted certain language in my thoughts and work-related reports, because I saw that I was getting too much into the cop mindset. The word "compliance" carries much of that gestalt. An added note regarding security: Normally, they are totally dressed down without the outward trappings mentioned above.

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2016-06-17, 22:10	#318
Spherical Cow Nov 2004 1000011100₂ Posts	Recently, the governor of Arizona (where I live) signed legislation that eased professional registration of some careers. You still need a degree and a state license to practice law, of course, and medicine. Plus a host of others. But you no longer need a license to be a yoga instructor, a geologist, a citrus fruit packer, or a cremationist. I had no idea you had to have a license to be a citrus fruit packer. And I have no idea whether non-citrus fruit packers are still licensed, or if they never were. Anyway, one of the things you still need a license for in Arizona is giving massages to dogs. A woman here has been sent a “Cease and Desist” order because she started a doggie massage business. She’s been told she’ll be fined $1000 per Swedish massage, regardless of whether it’s a Chihuahua, dachshund, poodle, or St. Bernard. No massages. She needs years of education, a degree, and a license from the state. Meanwhile, anyone off the street can, in about 15 minutes or so, buy a semi-automatic weapon, and a few days later, kill 49 innocent people in a nightclub in just a few hours, or 20 little children and a half dozen teachers at an elementary school in a matter of minutes, or a dozen or so in a theater even faster. That's Arizona- Strict, rigid, state control of those dangerous doggie masseuses. Thoughtfully amend the laws regarding the citrus fruit packers. But modify a 200 year old amendment about guns that is clearly out-of-date in these modern times? Sorry- our legislature is more concerned with curbing rampant doggie massages. Norm (Sorry- Arizona is about to be hit with another heat wave, so I'm venting early to relieve some pressure.)

2016-06-17, 22:32	#319
only_human "Gang aft agley" Sep 2002 2·1,877 Posts	Family of AR-15 Inventor Eugene Stoner: He Didn't Intend It for Civilians