Move 24 discussion: Everyone vs stockfish

[Till]

Maybe a combination of both approaches works fine:

24. Rb1 Nc4
now black cannot move the rook to c4 anymore
25. g3 Re4
now black cannot play Rxf5 anymore
26. Rbd1
we are threatening with mate on d8.
All black can play is
26. ... Rae8
27. Rd8
or
26. ... Re4e8
The second option would be more likely I guess

[WMHalsdorf]

Originally Posted by Till

Maybe a combination of both approaches works fine:

24. Rb1 Nc4
now black cannot move the rook to c4 anymore
25. g3 Re4
now black cannot play Rxf5 anymore
26. Rbd1
we are threatening with mate on d8.
All black can play is
26. ... Rae8
27. Rd8
or
26. ... Re4e8
The second option would be more likely I guess

26. ... Ree8 would be better since it prevents an attack on king.

[LaurV]

That's me at 12:30 in the night. I think I found a way to keep both those pawns, now that you managed to lose the one in the middle

23 g3 Rc4 (indeed!)
24 Nd4 (!) (anyhow I didn't understand why we moved it there )

This is half a joke, but actually it is a very good move. Black rooks are isolated on the left, he can't take the pawns. He can't defend the horse with Rb4 due to our Rb5 and we exchange (at least something, either rooks or horses) and we still keep the pawns, he can't take the horse out immediately, except with Na4, to which we either have Re1 or Rd6, very well developed position, and still keeping the pawns. So, he may try some exchange like:

24... Rcc8 (also makes place for the knight) but then:
25 Rf1 and now either Rxa2 Rxf6 (better for us, we take pawns that guard the king) either Nc4 Rxf6 Rxa2 Rd7 (we clear his pawns better!) either (if he tried to avoid all this stuff) Rcd8 Rxd8 Rxd8 Rf4 and we keep both pawns and still stay strong in the center with that horse.

So, all in all, g3 is a very good move, I will vote for it. Then we see later how we continue from there...

[Till]

24. g3 Rc4 (indeed!)
25. Nd4 (!) Rca4 ?

How about that? Once our knight leaves f5, blacks rooks are free for anything ;)

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by LaurV

That's me at 12:30 in the night. I think I found a way to keep both those pawns, now that you managed to lose the one in the middle

23 g3 Rc4 (indeed!)
24 Nd4 (!) (anyhow I didn't understand why we moved it there )

This is half a joke, but actually it is a very good move. Black rooks are isolated on the left, he can't take the pawns. He can't defend the horse with Rb4 due to our Rb5 and we exchange (at least something, either rooks or horses) and we still keep the pawns, he can't take the horse out immediately, except with Na4, to which we either have Re1 or Rd6, very well developed position, and still keeping the pawns. So, he may try some exchange like:

24... Rcc8 (also makes place for the knight) but then:
25 Rf1 and now either Rxa2 Rxf6 (better for us, we take pawns that guard the king) either Nc4 Rxf6 Rxa2 Rd7 (we clear his pawns better!) either (if he tried to avoid all this stuff) Rcd8 Rxd8 Rxd8 Rf4 and we keep both pawns and still stay strong in the center with that horse.

So, all in all, g3 is a very good move, I will vote for it. Then we see later how we continue from there...

Your move numbers are off by one.

After 24. g3 Rc4, 25. Nd4 would be inconsistent with our previous Nf5. If we do that we effectively gave up the b2 pawn for nothing. It also means that we can't move our d5 rook off of the d-file without wasting a move. We moved the knight to f5 looking for eventual perpetual check and holding the a8 rook on the back rank.

A little analysis:
25. Nd4 Na4
26. What now? Rd6 threatens nothing because we can't move our rook off of the d-file. Re1 is a weak attempt when black responds Kf8. Black likely brings his knight back into the foray with Nc5 in the next move or two and we are stuck a pawn down with no easy draw in sight.

To me, the only responses for us on move 25 are Rd6, Rd7, or Nh6+. Rf1 might be kind of interesting also. I think that 25. Nh6+ will be an easy draw per my previous analysis. That was part of the intent of Nf5.

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by axn

EDIT:- What about the rook sac, 27. Nh4+ Rxh4 28. gxh4? Our king's pawn cover is blown. Any dangers there? (We can avoid this line with 27. Ne7+)

To clarify for everyone:
24. g3 Rc4
25. Nh6+ Kg7
26. Nf5+ Kg6
27. Nh4+ Rxh4
28. gxh4

I can't see anything here for black. He is down the exchange for a pawn with no real attacking chances. With our two rooks, we'll easily pick off a pawn or two and there will be little that he can do. Our king can hide on h1 if the g-file becomes an issue.

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by Till

Maybe a combination of both approaches works fine:

24. Rb1 Nc4
now black cannot move the rook to c4 anymore
25. g3 Re4
now black cannot play Rxf5 anymore
26. Rbd1
we are threatening with mate on d8.
All black can play is
26. ... Rae8
27. Rd8
or
26. ... Re4e8
The second option would be more likely I guess

Originally Posted by WMHalsdorf

26. ... Ree8 would be better since it prevents an attack on king.

26...Ree8 is good. I also think that 26...h5 is good for black. Either way, this line is a more difficult draw for us.

[Till]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

To clarify for everyone:
24. g3 Rc4
25. Nh6+ Kg7
26. Nf5+ Kg6
27. Nh4+ Rxh4
28. gxh4

I agree that this way we can give permanent check until the black king goes to h8, and then we can nick a pawn or two. That's quite nice.

But I don't think black would play 27. ... Rxh4.