Move 5 discussion: Everyone vs stockfish

MooMoo2 · 2015-11-11, 23:38

The poll for move 4 just closed, and the most popular move was Ngf3. Stockfish responded with 4...Nf6, and the FEN is:
rnbqkb1r/pp3ppp/4pn2/2pp4/3PP3/5N2/PPPN1PPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq - 2 5

Game so far: 1.e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nf6

Brian-E · 2015-11-12, 09:13

Well we're still "in the book". And Stockfish's last move maintains the tension in the centre and tempts us to advance 5.e5 after all.

Our e pawn is threatened again, and the two obvious methods of dealing with it are 5.e5 setting up the pawn chain (which Black will then ruthlessly attack as we head into the middlegame), or 5.exd5 going for the isolated queen's pawn position (Black's pawn on d5) which we could also have done last move. The difference with last move is that this time Black could reply 5...Nxd5.

A third move which is occasionally played here according to the databases is the intermediate checking move 5.Bb5+. If we did that we would be intending to exchange this bishop later on for whatever minor piece Black puts in the way, I guess, because otherwise we would lose time when Black later attacks our bishop with ...Qb6/a5 or possibly ...a6.

Which moves do people prefer?

axn · 2015-11-12, 11:14

Looking at the database, e5 has better result than exd5, but while looking at performance rating delta, exd5 is faring slightly better. Perhaps deeper investigation of the lines is called for?

LaurV · 2015-11-12, 12:22

Ha! Looking in those DBs, it seems for me like SF plays for a draw!

He just chose the move with the most chances to draw...
Which means we already won... psychologically

He is demoralized now...

Brian-E · 2015-11-13, 09:35

My preference is 5.exd5 on the grounds that this move seems to leave Black with the least chances of counterplay, a passive position in other words. 5.e5 on the other hand, while it sets up a pawn chain leaving Black temporarily cramped after 5...Nfd7 6.c3, gives Black clear chances to play against that pawn chain which we have the responsibility of defending. It's a bit similar to the Advance Variation of the French, 1.e4.e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5. I think that it is good strategy against a computer to deny it active play.

LaurV · 2015-11-13, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian-E

5.exd5

I think we agree here, on all counts.

2015-11-11, 23:38	#1
MooMoo2 "Michael Kwok" Mar 2006 2²·5·59 Posts	Move 5 discussion: Everyone vs stockfish The poll for move 4 just closed, and the most popular move was Ngf3. Stockfish responded with 4...Nf6, and the FEN is: rnbqkb1r/pp3ppp/4pn2/2pp4/3PP3/5N2/PPPN1PPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq - 2 5 Game so far: 1.e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nf6 Attached Thumbnails

2015-11-12, 12:22	#4
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	Ha! Looking in those DBs, it seems for me like SF plays for a draw! He just chose the move with the most chances to draw... Which means we already won... psychologically He is demoralized now... Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2015-11-12 at 12:24

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2015-11-12, 09:13	#2
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	Well we're still "in the book". And Stockfish's last move maintains the tension in the centre and tempts us to advance 5.e5 after all. Our e pawn is threatened again, and the two obvious methods of dealing with it are 5.e5 setting up the pawn chain (which Black will then ruthlessly attack as we head into the middlegame), or 5.exd5 going for the isolated queen's pawn position (Black's pawn on d5) which we could also have done last move. The difference with last move is that this time Black could reply 5...Nxd5. A third move which is occasionally played here according to the databases is the intermediate checking move 5.Bb5+. If we did that we would be intending to exchange this bishop later on for whatever minor piece Black puts in the way, I guess, because otherwise we would lose time when Black later attacks our bishop with ...Qb6/a5 or possibly ...a6. Which moves do people prefer?

2015-11-12, 11:14	#3
axn Jun 2003 2³×683 Posts	Looking at the database, e5 has better result than exd5, but while looking at performance rating delta, exd5 is faring slightly better. Perhaps deeper investigation of the lines is called for?

2015-11-13, 09:35	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	My preference is 5.exd5 on the grounds that this move seems to leave Black with the least chances of counterplay, a passive position in other words. 5.e5 on the other hand, while it sets up a pawn chain leaving Black temporarily cramped after 5...Nfd7 6.c3, gives Black clear chances to play against that pawn chain which we have the responsibility of defending. It's a bit similar to the Advance Variation of the French, 1.e4.e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5. I think that it is good strategy against a computer to deny it active play.