White 32 - Page 2

cheesehead · 2014-06-18, 07:14

[QUOTE=cheesehead;376040]Revision:
[B]38 Ra7[/B] threatens 39 Rxa5, [B]but now it's on the same diagonal as our king, so before Black's B can move again, we must move our king (or rook) !![/B]
[/QUOTE]Alternative:
[B]38 Bf1[/B] (to be able to answer ... Nc4 with Bxc4, and to answer ... Nb3 with Bc4+)

If [B]38 ... Nxf1 39 Kxf1[/B] This may be another way for Black to use the knight to protect the a5-pawn ... but it gets our king off the b7-g1 diagonal.
If [B]39 ... Ke6[/B] (not ... Kf6 or Ke8 or Kf8 which place the king farther from a5/a4) Black will have un-pinned his bishop and can reply to [B]40 Ra7[/B] with [B]40 ... Bb4[/B].

To avoid losing, Black can now try either:
A) capture our a4-pawn with his king, so as to allow his a-pawn to advance, or
B) capture our g-h pawns with king and/or bishop, so as to advance his own g-h pawns.

But we should be able to prevent both by using our rook:
C) to screen the Black king from reaching either side of the board, and/or
D) to capture Black's king-side pawns.

- -

If [B]38 ... Ke6 39 Rc5 Bb4
40 Bd3[/B] (making the knight take a longer path - ... Nb3-c1-a2-c3 - to reach c3 where it forks our rook and pawn, and threatening to fork the knight and king after ... Nb3 or ... Na2 so that the Black king has to move first -- however, after ... Nc1 our B can simply do Bc4 where it controls every square to which the knight could move from c1). But as long as it stays on d3, it also attacks the g6-pawn.

[B]40 ... Nf3+ 41 Kh1[/B] (not 41 Kg2 Ne1+ or 41 Kf1 or Kf2 Nxh2).
[B]41 ... Nd4[/B] and now our rook has no safe place to stay on the 5th rank. If [B]42 Rc7+[/B] Black can try Kd5-c5, but that would leave his king-side pawns defenseless against our rook. But his king has to move [I]somewhere[/I] and then we capture the g6-pawn.

- -

Maybe next I should just consolidate our analysis so far, instead of having fun figuring out ways to win that may never come about if I overlooked a resource for Black. I suspect that some of my analysis has been not entirely rigorous lately.

LaurV · 2014-06-19, 06:23

You are both right, our best moves now are either 32 Nxe6+ or 32 Nb5.
The last is very good, as it contains their king and (as WMH said) almost all their pieces, but I am adept of the aggressive version, so I also prefer Nxe6.

I think I would post the move, there is nothing else to do, and give them the weekend, they will lose anyhow :razz:

Related to the "if moves", we should at least ask them first. Last time when we discussed, they didn't like it so much, and stepping in right now with an "if move" when we have the winning position, is not only impolite but it looks like bullying/boasting, too. Just my opinion. They answered fast to the last move, so they are reasonable, maybe they gave up hopes already, hehe, but as long as we don't wait over the time limit for obvious moves, we don't need to push them. Let the game flow.

cheesehead · 2014-06-19, 12:41

[QUOTE=LaurV;376182]I think I would post the move[/quote](32 Nxe6+) Thank you. It turns out that they have already replied (with the forced move 32 ... Kd7), so I'll start a "White 33" thread.

[quote]Related to the "if moves", we should at least ask them first. Last time when we discussed, they didn't like it so much, and stepping in right now with an "if move" when we have the winning position, is not only impolite but it looks like bullying/boasting, too. Just my opinion. They answered fast to the last move, so they are reasonable, maybe they gave up hopes already, hehe, but as long as we don't wait over the time limit for obvious moves, we don't need to push them. Let the game flow.[/QUOTE]Again I'll state that, although I disagree with some of your argument, I will try to curb my impatience and refrain from suggesting if-moves again in this game.

2014-06-18, 07:14	#12
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 2²×3×641 Posts	[QUOTE=cheesehead;376040]Revision: [B]38 Ra7[/B] threatens 39 Rxa5, [B]but now it's on the same diagonal as our king, so before Black's B can move again, we must move our king (or rook) !![/B] [/QUOTE]Alternative: [B]38 Bf1[/B] (to be able to answer ... Nc4 with Bxc4, and to answer ... Nb3 with Bc4+) If [B]38 ... Nxf1 39 Kxf1[/B] This may be another way for Black to use the knight to protect the a5-pawn ... but it gets our king off the b7-g1 diagonal. If [B]39 ... Ke6[/B] (not ... Kf6 or Ke8 or Kf8 which place the king farther from a5/a4) Black will have un-pinned his bishop and can reply to [B]40 Ra7[/B] with [B]40 ... Bb4[/B]. To avoid losing, Black can now try either: A) capture our a4-pawn with his king, so as to allow his a-pawn to advance, or B) capture our g-h pawns with king and/or bishop, so as to advance his own g-h pawns. But we should be able to prevent both by using our rook: C) to screen the Black king from reaching either side of the board, and/or D) to capture Black's king-side pawns. - - If [B]38 ... Ke6 39 Rc5 Bb4 40 Bd3[/B] (making the knight take a longer path - ... Nb3-c1-a2-c3 - to reach c3 where it forks our rook and pawn, and threatening to fork the knight and king after ... Nb3 or ... Na2 so that the Black king has to move first -- however, after ... Nc1 our B can simply do Bc4 where it controls every square to which the knight could move from c1). But as long as it stays on d3, it also attacks the g6-pawn. [B]40 ... Nf3+ 41 Kh1[/B] (not 41 Kg2 Ne1+ or 41 Kf1 or Kf2 Nxh2). [B]41 ... Nd4[/B] and now our rook has no safe place to stay on the 5th rank. If [B]42 Rc7+[/B] Black can try Kd5-c5, but that would leave his king-side pawns defenseless against our rook. But his king has to move [I]somewhere[/I] and then we capture the g6-pawn. - - Maybe next I should just consolidate our analysis so far, instead of having fun figuring out ways to win that may never come about if I overlooked a resource for Black. I suspect that some of my analysis has been not entirely rigorous lately. Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2014-06-18 at 08:12

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2014-06-19, 06:23	#13
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 10291₁₀ Posts	You are both right, our best moves now are either 32 Nxe6+ or 32 Nb5. The last is very good, as it contains their king and (as WMH said) almost all their pieces, but I am adept of the aggressive version, so I also prefer Nxe6. I think I would post the move, there is nothing else to do, and give them the weekend, they will lose anyhow :razz: Related to the "if moves", we should at least ask them first. Last time when we discussed, they didn't like it so much, and stepping in right now with an "if move" when we have the winning position, is not only impolite but it looks like bullying/boasting, too. Just my opinion. They answered fast to the last move, so they are reasonable, maybe they gave up hopes already, hehe, but as long as we don't wait over the time limit for obvious moves, we don't need to push them. Let the game flow.

2014-06-19, 12:41	#14
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 7692₁₀ Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;376182]I think I would post the move[/quote](32 Nxe6+) Thank you. It turns out that they have already replied (with the forced move 32 ... Kd7), so I'll start a "White 33" thread. [quote]Related to the "if moves", we should at least ask them first. Last time when we discussed, they didn't like it so much, and stepping in right now with an "if move" when we have the winning position, is not only impolite but it looks like bullying/boasting, too. Just my opinion. They answered fast to the last move, so they are reasonable, maybe they gave up hopes already, hehe, but as long as we don't wait over the time limit for obvious moves, we don't need to push them. Let the game flow.[/QUOTE]Again I'll state that, although I disagree with some of your argument, I will try to curb my impatience and refrain from suggesting if-moves again in this game.