Star... MineCraft has to come off the CV

[Batalov]

Originally Posted by TheMawn

I've been that drunk exactly once in my life.

World to live by! In the ideal world (inhibited by infinitely smart people) everyone could say that. Because, occasionally, every person might drink just a bit more (if anything else - to experiment) until they get hangover, once. Then they will have learned their (all of that day confounded factors-adjusted) limit.

As the infamous saying goes, "You can't get pregnant drunk the first time."

Of course, with drinking the opposite is true (with pregnancy, it is simply not true statistically, but not categorically): you will have no point of reference, you will try every drink, you will drink with every friend and will not pass on any toast, and you will get drunk (especially with the conspiring friends). That's why any responsible parent should teach his kids to drink! (Har-dee-har, but seriously.) I am the one to talk. I tried many times - my kids won't yield to my teaching. ...Well, it's their loss. One day, they will regret it.

Incidentally, I've heard that the sneezing reaction to alcohol (or the alleged unpleasant taste) is purely an induced mental construct. A toddler (or try a cat) will sniff vodka with interest and if asked to describe it will not usually say that it is horrible. It is after your first hangover that your mind alters your perception - for your own good, too. ;-)

[Mini-Geek]

Originally Posted by Batalov

Incidentally, I've heard that the sneezing reaction to alcohol (or the alleged unpleasant taste) is purely an induced mental construct. A toddler (or try a cat) will sniff vodka with interest and if asked to describe it will not usually say that it is horrible. It is after your first hangover that your mind alters your perception - for your own good, too. ;-)

Despite having never been drunk or hungover, I have an aversion to the smell of strong alcohol (e.g. rubbing alcohol). So I must disagree with your statement.
(I can't rule out some other causes - I've known for as long as I can remember that only adults should drink alcohol, so maybe that "I can't have it" turned into "it's unpleasant")

[TheMawn]

Well, I'm one of those infuriating fuckers who don't get hangovers. I've been drunk enough to pass out once but I have overdone it in a couple of additional instances. I feel fine by the next morning.

In fact, after this one particular event (during which I did vomit and everything), I slept for just eight hours, left the house, and stopped to play 18 holes of golf on my way to get breakfast!


I'm either lucky or smart. Whenever I have more more than five drinks in one evening, on my way to bed, I have a glass of water, then another, and another, until I feel like crap, and then one more. Your sleep is shitty if you're that drunk anyway, so having to wake up in the night to pee isn't hurting anything.

And you'd be surprised how little of the six cups of water actually tries to leave... Especially if you puked earlier.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by TheMawn

I'm either lucky or smart.

or simply: young and mostly healthy right now. Your body has greater tolerance for insults now than it will have in the future, but piling on the insults wears out the tolerance faster than moderation does.

- -

As for the CV, I agree with those who generally said: you need to change your perspective from that of a student to that of a prospective employer when crafting your CV.

Prospective employers will consider your CV as your first exhibit of professional behavior. You better not treat it as only a hobby!

No game mentions on the CV _unless_ you're applying for a position at a videogame company, and then be careful about your inclusions. Indeed, no mention of _any_ hobby unless you are _very, very_ sure (get a professional employment adviser's opinion) that a prospective employer would sincerely, realistically consider it _directly relevant_ to the job position you seek. ... Hmmm -- "Mechanical Engineering". Not a chance in your case. Do not mention games!

If you can't resist including a "hobby" section. it needs to be something like:

Designed, by myself, a 30-meter steel truss bridge, which was constructed, and can be inspected, at (location). (Copy of bridge designer certificate is enclosed) Certified as structurally sound with a xxx-tonne load limit for general public use by (professional engineer/official registered/licensed to issue such certifications, ID # xxxxx) -- copy of certificate enclosed.

or

Cite a school achievement, on which you were evaluated (capable of being double-checked by prospective employer) by faculty, that's as related as possible to your sought job position.

Note the common factor: real, verifiable achievements that received genuine professional approval/certification that is demonstrably documented.

- -

Note: all this advised work and attention to detail is necessary in a tight job market such as now ... IF you _genuinely_ want to find a _good-quality job that suits you_. Or, you can slack off and never know what you missed.

Sure, you could casually list all your hobbies, and if jobs were plentiful, few prospective employers would care, but ... that was then, this is now. Face the job-market reality and the fierce competition from multiple other applicants, and act accordingly.

BTW, have you considered having your CV written by a professional CV-writer? If not, why not? The stakes are high -- a good, well-paid job that suits you, or just-any-old-job-you-can-get.

- - -

Mechanical engineering, eh?

Which bridge lasts longer:

the one located where it is subjected to frequent storms, heavy traffic, occasional earthquakes, yearly floods higher than its road deck

or

the identical one subjected to only occasional bad weather, light traffic, no seismic activity, no floods

?

Now, substitute:

"body" for "bridge"

"who frequently consumes substantial amounts of alcohol" for "located where it is subjected to frequent storms, heavy traffic ..."

"who consumes only small amounts of alcohol, infrequently" for "subjected to only occasional bad weather, light traffic, ..."

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

or simply: young and mostly healthy right now. Your body has greater tolerance for insults now than it will have in the future, but piling on the insults wears out the tolerance faster than moderation does.

I'm with Cheesehead here. Don't trust on that lasting forever.

I used to be able to go without sleep, nor food, for days. No longer. (My record for no sleep was 78 hours; no food was 9 days; but that was when I was in my twenties.)

Manage the situation.

[TheMawn]

Thanks, Cheesehead. I'm starting to see that the people from the Professional Communications center were actually borderline stupid. They were all about the hobbies section. In fact, I might have been hesitant to put it on a couple of years ago in the course and have been brainwashed since. Ah, well.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by TheMawn

Thanks, Cheesehead. I'm starting to see that the people from the Professional Communications center were actually borderline stupid. They were all about the hobbies section. In fact, I might have been hesitant to put it on a couple of years ago in the course and have been brainwashed since. Ah, well.

Well, another reality is that when you're fresh out of college, you probably won't have much job history. So you may need to say a carefully-crafted bit more about your job-relevant collegiate achievements than someone who does already have a substantial job history.

And when considering your first CV, it's awfully tempting to view your academic-and-maybe-skimpy-job-history achievements as thin. But filling out the page with irrelevant hobby detail only looks, to a prospective employer, like underbrush he has to cut through ... and he may well find it easier to go on to the next applicant.

Someone who's read hundreds of CVs will instantly recognize irrelevant padding intended only to fill out the page as a sign of non-professionalism.

Don't be afraid to have your just-out-of-school CV look somewhat lean. It will have done its purpose if it gets you an interview where the prospective employer will ask about what s/he really wants to know about you. OTOH, just a recitation of your degrees is too skinny -- hence my advice about choosing school achievement(s) you can highlight on this beginner's CV, if possible. If you can just pique the prospective employer's interest with a slim description of a real achievement, that may be enough.

Prospective employers will give you some leeway for being just out of college with a good degree. They know you'll be raw; that's why they'll pay you less than they'd pay someone with more experience. (Maybe they were once raw college graduates looking for a first job?)

It may well be a matter of luck as to whether some detail in a CV gets a prospective employer's attention. That happened to me.

Ever read What Color is Your Parachute? That author gives loads of advice, such as doing research on a prospective employer's company business. If you get an interview, it's definitely better to walk in knowing what the firm does than not knowing.

Remember -- your prospective employer will view your job-hunting presentation as your first-for-him/her example of the quality of your professional work. Neglecting to "Google" the company beforehand will bespeak of laziness.

- -

I've skipped mentioning cover letters ... only because that was a job-hunting weakness of mine. Please learn how to compose a good cover letter showing that you are somewhat aware of what the company does. I never did that; maybe I'd have had a better job somewhere along the line if I had. It was really important if one wanted to appear as a leading candidate among all the other job-seekers in my time.

I had some job-seeking luck that current-day job-seekers cannot count on.

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by TheMawn

Thanks, Cheesehead. I'm starting to see that the people from the Professional Communications center were actually borderline stupid. They were all about the hobbies section.

Perhaps that is indicative of what they had on their own CVs. "Those that don't communicate professionally, teach professional communications", the latest example of the Peter Principle in action.

I recall going to a similarly-ill-advice-laden confab for soon-to-be-graduates back when I was finishing up my PhD ... after the so-called expert advisors spent most of the hour-or-two blathering about touchy-feely "hobbies, life-broadening experiences and other interests" stuff on the ol' CV, I felt compelled to raise my hand and ask "what about competence in one's field?" That elicited much hemming and hawing.

But seriously, video game addiction is now being spun as a relevant CV item? O brave new world, that has such people in it.

[TheMawn]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

But seriously, video game addiction is now being spun as a relevant CV item? O brave new world, that has such people in it.

As promised I am taking all feedback into account, but to be honest, I don't quite know what you're getting at here.

[TheMawn]

Oh and by the way, to whoever changed the thread title, quite clever, and hopefully nobody makes the mistake of putting Minecraft on the CV.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

If you can't resist including a "hobby" section. it needs to be something like:

Designed, by myself, a 30-meter steel truss bridge, which was constructed, and can be inspected, at (location). (Copy of bridge designer certificate is enclosed) Certified as structurally sound with a xxx-tonne load limit for general public use by (professional engineer/official registered/licensed to issue such certifications, ID # xxxxx) -- copy of certificate enclosed.

That was deliberately unrealistic and overblown. Sorry.

What exactly, have you ever done yourself that required use of principles of mechanical engineering? Besides Tinkertoys and such -- something you designed/constructed?

Ever make an exhibit for a science fair that used ME principles? That's the sort of thing that might merit an eight-word CV phrase if you still have evidence (Take your science fair trophy in your briefcase to the job interview, but only take it out if the interviewer mentions "science fair" -- or maybe take it out anyway if you sense that the surprise would help you.)

BTW, What Color is Your Parachute mentions out-of-the-box (in a different sense) stuff like that. Or, at least the copies I bought twenty-five years ago did.

(BTW, I'm just assuming that you seek a job doing some type of mechanical engineering. Not like a psychology major doing computer programming for a financial company. My colleague got a lot of ribbing after she revealed that.)