Move 29

Brian-E · 2014-05-30, 10:19

Just two legal moves for us this time.

Here's my attempt to list the pros and cons of each one:
[LIST][*]29...Kd8 allows us to recapture on c8 with the king (if they take the bishop there).[*]29...Kd8 sends the king towards the queenside which I think is more likely to be the part of the board where it will need to be for the endgame because White's c pawn (already passed) and a pawn (passed if our a pawn falls, which it might well) seem most likely to become threatening in the endgame.[*]If we stay in the middlegame for the time being, then our king will be safer and more out of range of White's rook and bishops if it heads for g8 than it will on the d file or on c7.[/LIST]I favour 29...Kd8 at the moment, especially because of the line 29...Kf8 30.Nxb3 Rxb3 31.Nxc8 Nxc8 after which they seem to have a pleasant choice of various very favourable continuations for them, such as 32.c4 Ra3 33.Bc6, or immediately 32.Rxe6 and if 32...Kf7 33.Ra6, or 32...Bxc3 33.Bxc3 Rxc3 34.Ra6 - these endgames look hopeless for us.

richs · 2014-05-31, 20:02

We are at the beginning of the end it appears. We lose our rook:

29. ... Kd8
30. Rb1 Nd2
31. Rxb8 Bxc3
32. Nxe6+ Kd7
33. Nxc8 Kxe6
34. Rb6+ Ke5

Our king is flushed out.

Brian-E · 2014-06-01, 08:24

[QUOTE=richs;374721]We are at the beginning of the end it appears. We lose our rook:

29. ... Kd8
30. Rb1 Nd2
31. Rxb8 Bxc3
32. Nxe6+ Kd7
33. Nxc8 Kxe6
34. Rb6+ Ke5

Our king is flushed out.[/QUOTE]
Before anyone has premature heart failure reading your post, it's the exchange (rook for minor piece), not a whole rook.:smile:

No need for pessimism yet, as far as I can see. The ending an exchange down with few pawns left on the board (as we looked at at the end of the last thread) is not always easy for the stronger side to win.

Plus: I'm not sure their move 30.Rb1 is even playable there. What about (29...Kd8 30.Rb1) 30...Nxc5 31.Rxb8 Kc7? I think we actually win material here.

EDIT: One thing I think you have demonstrated, though, is we mustn't play 29...Kf8 because then 30.Rb1 really does win ruinous material.
So: am I right in thinking that 29...Kd8 is a forced move now?

Brian-E · 2014-06-01, 12:04

[QUOTE=Brian-E;374759]Plus: I'm not sure their move 30.Rb1 is even playable there. What about (29...Kd8 30.Rb1) 30...Nxc5 31.Rxb8 Kc7? I think we actually win material here.[/QUOTE]
Aaagh! No, I'm totally wrong: 29...Kd8 30.Rb1 Nxc5 31.Rxb8 Kc7 32.Rxc8+ Nxc8 33.Ne8+ wins a piece.

Looks like we must give up the exchange in a manner similar to what Rich gives, or else by 32...Kxd6 in the above line. But I'm not so pessimistic about that as to call it the "beginning of the end", not for now anyway.

henryzz · 2014-06-02, 16:05

I will have a look at this in detail tomorrow. I finished exams today so my time available should skyrocket.

richs · 2014-06-03, 02:13

Ok, I was overly pessimistic when I posted.... :smile:

It's going to a technically interesting endgame.

I'd like to hear what David and Paul think. David, I'm glad you're done with exams!

paulunderwood · 2014-06-03, 10:54

I was AFK for a few days... To me, it looks like Kd8 is best, putting our King in an active position, rather than cowardly trying to get it into the kingside corner. :smile:

Brian-E · 2014-06-03, 10:58

Glad everyone's found time again from our busy lives.:smile:

29...Kd8 for me too, even if only because 29...Kf8 30.Rb1 seems to win a whole piece and pretty much force our resignation.

henryzz · 2014-06-03, 12:56

Yes definitely Kd8. I am still undecided about whether Nxc5 or Nxd2 is best after Rb1.

richs · 2014-06-03, 14:28

It appears we all agree on Kd8. Time to move?

paulunderwood · 2014-06-03, 14:38

Yeah, we could move now :smile:

2014-05-30, 10:19	#1
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands CCE₁₆ Posts	Move 29 Just two legal moves for us this time. Here's my attempt to list the pros and cons of each one: [LIST][]29...Kd8 allows us to recapture on c8 with the king (if they take the bishop there).[]29...Kd8 sends the king towards the queenside which I think is more likely to be the part of the board where it will need to be for the endgame because White's c pawn (already passed) and a pawn (passed if our a pawn falls, which it might well) seem most likely to become threatening in the endgame.[*]If we stay in the middlegame for the time being, then our king will be safer and more out of range of White's rook and bishops if it heads for g8 than it will on the d file or on c7.[/LIST]I favour 29...Kd8 at the moment, especially because of the line 29...Kf8 30.Nxb3 Rxb3 31.Nxc8 Nxc8 after which they seem to have a pleasant choice of various very favourable continuations for them, such as 32.c4 Ra3 33.Bc6, or immediately 32.Rxe6 and if 32...Kf7 33.Ra6, or 32...Bxc3 33.Bxc3 Rxc3 34.Ra6 - these endgames look hopeless for us.

2014-06-01, 08:24	#3
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 6316₈ Posts	[QUOTE=richs;374721]We are at the beginning of the end it appears. We lose our rook: 29. ... Kd8 30. Rb1 Nd2 31. Rxb8 Bxc3 32. Nxe6+ Kd7 33. Nxc8 Kxe6 34. Rb6+ Ke5 Our king is flushed out.[/QUOTE] Before anyone has premature heart failure reading your post, it's the exchange (rook for minor piece), not a whole rook.:smile: No need for pessimism yet, as far as I can see. The ending an exchange down with few pawns left on the board (as we looked at at the end of the last thread) is not always easy for the stronger side to win. Plus: I'm not sure their move 30.Rb1 is even playable there. What about (29...Kd8 30.Rb1) 30...Nxc5 31.Rxb8 Kc7? I think we actually win material here. EDIT: One thing I think you have demonstrated, though, is we mustn't play 29...Kf8 because then 30.Rb1 really does win ruinous material. So: am I right in thinking that 29...Kd8 is a forced move now? Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2014-06-01 at 08:36 Reason: Link with 29...Kf8, plus some notation corrections

2014-06-01, 12:04	#4
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;374759]Plus: I'm not sure their move 30.Rb1 is even playable there. What about (29...Kd8 30.Rb1) 30...Nxc5 31.Rxb8 Kc7? I think we actually win material here.[/QUOTE] Aaagh! No, I'm totally wrong: 29...Kd8 30.Rb1 Nxc5 31.Rxb8 Kc7 32.Rxc8+ Nxc8 33.Ne8+ wins a piece. Looks like we must give up the exchange in a manner similar to what Rich gives, or else by 32...Kxd6 in the above line. But I'm not so pessimistic about that as to call it the "beginning of the end", not for now anyway. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2014-06-01 at 12:08 Reason: notation

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2014-05-31, 20:02	#2
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	We are at the beginning of the end it appears. We lose our rook: 29. ... Kd8 30. Rb1 Nd2 31. Rxb8 Bxc3 32. Nxe6+ Kd7 33. Nxc8 Kxe6 34. Rb6+ Ke5 Our king is flushed out.

2014-06-02, 16:05	#5
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	I will have a look at this in detail tomorrow. I finished exams today so my time available should skyrocket.

2014-06-03, 02:13	#6
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 6B6₁₆ Posts	Ok, I was overly pessimistic when I posted.... :smile: It's going to a technically interesting endgame. I'd like to hear what David and Paul think. David, I'm glad you're done with exams!

2014-06-03, 10:54	#7
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×937 Posts	I was AFK for a few days... To me, it looks like Kd8 is best, putting our King in an active position, rather than cowardly trying to get it into the kingside corner. :smile:

2014-06-03, 10:58	#8
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	Glad everyone's found time again from our busy lives.:smile: 29...Kd8 for me too, even if only because 29...Kf8 30.Rb1 seems to win a whole piece and pretty much force our resignation.

2014-06-03, 12:56	#9
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	Yes definitely Kd8. I am still undecided about whether Nxc5 or Nxd2 is best after Rb1.

2014-06-03, 14:28	#10
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2·859 Posts	It appears we all agree on Kd8. Time to move?

2014-06-03, 14:38	#11
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×937 Posts	Yeah, we could move now :smile: