Nice Photovoltaik Peak in Germany

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by kladner

Just WOW!

Indeed!!! I almost got a "woody" over those pictures!

Originally Posted by kladner

On the other hand, burning birds had not occurred to me as a hazard.

IMHO, this is just another scare tactic by those who don't want solar "Power Tower" energy solutions to be deployed. Almost exactly like the "bird scare" about wind turbines.

Give them a few generations (no joke intended), and the smart birds will learn to avoid such things, and the dumb birds will be removed from the gene pool. Evolution in action.

(Or, alternatively, we continue to burn old animals (read: oil), and make the planet Earth even less hospitable for /many/ more animals, including us humans.)

[kladner]

Originally Posted by LaurV

So, you get the electricity for free? Or only the daylight in the night?

There are not details about this particular installation, but with solar concentrators like these, the temperatures produced lend themselves to molten salt heat storage. Typically, the molten salt is stored in underground tanks and is used to make steam for generation in non-sunny periods.

[Uncwilly]

Here is the Grand-daddy of that project:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sol...ject#Solar_One

[Chuck]

There are excellent panoramic views of the Ivanpah solar farm here. You can click on the little map icon at the top and there are several other vantage points from which to select.

[kladner]

Originally Posted by Chuck

There are excellent panoramic views of the Ivanpah solar farm here. You can click on the little map icon at the top and there are several other vantage points from which to select.

That is a really great set of renderings!

[jasong]

Not trying to get kicked to the Soap Box, but why have I never heard of anyone trying to use batteries to store coal plant energy?

I think maybe the coal industry doesn't like renewable energy even a little bit.

I think carbon credits are a great idea, then send as much of that as you can to people and/or companies that generate electricity without generating CO2. When the "account" starts going negative, pay less for the good electricity, but keep taxing the bad into perpetuity.

[kladner]

Chappy has posted about his (electric company) employer using a water reservoir as a battery to balance supply and demand within the system. Water is pumped uphill when there is a power surplus, and used for generation at times of heavier loads. I'm not sure about the use of chemical electric storage (conventional batteries) on this scale, but a quick look turns this up-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_en...rage#Batteries

[Uncwilly]

In addition to hydrostatic storage, there are other non-chemical energy storage technologies. Ligthsail is a promising one.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by Uncwilly

In addition to hydrostatic storage, there are other non-chemical energy storage technologies. Ligthsail is a promising one.

And don't forget flywheels. Also a solution space with some interesting recent advancements....

[tServo]

Originally Posted by kladner

Chappy has posted about his (electric company) employer using a water reservoir as a battery to balance supply and demand within the system. Water is pumped uphill when there is a power surplus, and used for generation at times of heavier loads.

My previous home state had an enormous one of these near Ludington, Michigan
that was a plateau on the shore of Lake Michigan that the utility gouged out.
It generates about 1,850 MW during the day.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by jasong

why have I never heard of anyone trying to use batteries to store coal plant energy?

Because there's no need. Coal-fired facilities can relatively easily lower their fuel use and output when demand drops. Then their potential future energy stays in the unburned coal.
Same for natural gas.

It's far cheaper and easier to simply reduce fuel use than to burn the fuel to produce excess electricity then store that excess and release it later (with associated conversion inefficiencies).

However, if a solar plant's output is greater than demand, lowering their output does not allow then to store future potential energy by not "burning" their "fuel". If there's no storage (such as batteries), then unconverted sunshine will simply go unused and won't be available for easy future use.

There's still the consideration of whether it's cheaper to store energy when the sun shines in order to release it later when there's not enough sunshine, taking into account the conversion and storage inefficiencies. But unlike unconverted coal or unconverted gas the unconverted sunshine can't be stored for future input to the generator.