White 12

cheesehead · 2013-10-12, 03:02

Black have now also fianchettoed their Q-side bishop.

Are there any other 12th moves to consider along with Ne2, Nf3, Rb1 and Ra2?

I think Nf3 is more attractive now than Ne2, and Ra2 more than Ra1.

LaurV · 2013-10-12, 04:57

I totally didn't see the bishop move coming! I was expecting them to develop the second horse, and all other moves were worse.
I will have a busy weekend looking into this (if SWMBO allows it, and she doesn't have different plans...)

@cheesehead, you wanna say "Ra2 more than Rb1", as the rook is already in a1. I also think that moving the rook now is a must, to get out the link, but I don't know where, and I don't know if we should move it now, or develop the horse first. Fortunately, there are only 3 squares we could put it, a2, b1, and c1. Another question is if the c1 square is really out of the list, and why. I think Rc1 is quite a viable move (may not be the best, but is playable): after c4/b4 and exchanging the pawns (they are forced to exchange, one is not defended and the other is attacked by our bishop) we can manage to remain with two strong pawns in b4 and c4 (but no pawns on columns a and d). Well, this is just a divagation, the main move might be chosen between Rb1, Ra1 and Nf3, but it need more work to see which (I agree with you, I also don't like Ne2 in this position - I never liked Ne2).

WMHalsdorf · 2013-10-12, 20:15

With Bb7 black is preparing to play f5. The question remains what position are we most comfortable with if that is thier plan.

cheesehead · 2013-10-13, 18:03

[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;356086]With Bb7 black is preparing to play f5. The question remains what position are we most comfortable with if that is thier plan.[/QUOTE]Immediate 12 ... f5 would leave e- & d-pawns backward.

12 Nf3, then if 12 ... f5 13 Ng5 threatening Nxe6 and other Knight marauding

(13 ... fxe4 14 Nxe6 Kf7 15 Ng5+ and 16 White takes e4)

(13 ... e5 14 0-0 retaining threat of Ne6 attacking B/g7, then Nc7+, Nxb5, Nxd6 etc.)

WMHalsdorf · 2013-10-13, 18:46

My current order for the moves under consideration.
1. Nf3 disrupts blacks plans more than Ne2
2. Ra2 indirectly maintains pressure on the a column
3. Rb1
4. Ne2
5. Rc1

cheesehead · 2013-10-13, 20:01

Nf3 - 5
Ra2 - 3
Rb1 - 2
Rc1 - 1
Ne2 - 1

LaurV · 2013-10-14, 07:23

Very clear, and we are in agreement here. I only spent a small amount of time on the weekend, but clearly the move is from the set {Nf3, Rxx}, hehe...

The e5- and f5- related discussion is what I was thinking, too. Damn, we are a good team! :smile:

My score:
Nf3 - 5
Rb1 - 4
Rc1 - 4
Ra2 - 2 (I don't consider the marginal column so important now, beside of attacking the pawn in the back, which is easy to defend; the big war - if any - will be on column b or c. In fact, their bishop in front of the rook is somehow bad, till they castle, if we play Rb1 that bishop is "linked", and the pawn in b5 is defenseless if we push b4. Therefore I consider Rb1 much better than Ra2. With Rc1, we do "trading", taking the column c and gibing them b. If we push on col c or take the horse out of d1, we get the column c faster than they can get b - now crowded more than before. Therefore, Rc1 is "almost" same good as Rb1)
Ne2 - 1 (this is actually a bad move!)

Should we play it now, or "strategically" wait? (if we play now and they answer on Sunday, we are "out of one weekend" for the next move, if you know what i mean...:razz:). On the other hand, I don't think we are going to change anything for this move: everything is very clear here, and we all agree with it. So, we could very well be fair play and speed up the game.

WMHalsdorf · 2013-10-14, 14:23

This could would be a good time to speed up the game since they would be more prone to making a bad move with less time time to think on our time.

LaurV · 2013-10-14, 14:46

Ok, then I will post it right now.

cheesehead · 2013-10-14, 23:44

[QUOTE=LaurV;356176]Rc1 - 4[/QUOTE]Let's not forget that as long as black's N/a5 remains there, pushing our c-pawn leaves a big hole for ... Nb3.

[quote]Ra2 - 2[/quote]Let's not forget that with R on a2, ... b4 remains inhibited. And our B/e3 points at a7, so the a-file is not so out-of-the-action.

2013-10-12, 03:02	#1
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 17014₈ Posts	White 12 Black have now also fianchettoed their Q-side bishop. Are there any other 12th moves to consider along with Ne2, Nf3, Rb1 and Ra2? I think Nf3 is more attractive now than Ne2, and Ra2 more than Ra1. Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-10-12 at 03:06

2013-10-12, 04:57	#2
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 2833₁₆ Posts	I totally didn't see the bishop move coming! I was expecting them to develop the second horse, and all other moves were worse. I will have a busy weekend looking into this (if SWMBO allows it, and she doesn't have different plans...) @cheesehead, you wanna say "Ra2 more than Rb1", as the rook is already in a1. I also think that moving the rook now is a must, to get out the link, but I don't know where, and I don't know if we should move it now, or develop the horse first. Fortunately, there are only 3 squares we could put it, a2, b1, and c1. Another question is if the c1 square is really out of the list, and why. I think Rc1 is quite a viable move (may not be the best, but is playable): after c4/b4 and exchanging the pawns (they are forced to exchange, one is not defended and the other is attacked by our bishop) we can manage to remain with two strong pawns in b4 and c4 (but no pawns on columns a and d). Well, this is just a divagation, the main move might be chosen between Rb1, Ra1 and Nf3, but it need more work to see which (I agree with you, I also don't like Ne2 in this position - I never liked Ne2). Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-10-12 at 05:29

2013-10-13, 18:03	#4
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 2²×3×641 Posts	[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;356086]With Bb7 black is preparing to play f5. The question remains what position are we most comfortable with if that is thier plan.[/QUOTE]Immediate 12 ... f5 would leave e- & d-pawns backward. 12 Nf3, then if 12 ... f5 13 Ng5 threatening Nxe6 and other Knight marauding (13 ... fxe4 14 Nxe6 Kf7 15 Ng5+ and 16 White takes e4) (13 ... e5 14 0-0 retaining threat of Ne6 attacking B/g7, then Nc7+, Nxb5, Nxd6 etc.) Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-10-13 at 18:47

2013-10-13, 20:01	#6
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 2²·3·641 Posts	Nf3 - 5 Ra2 - 3 Rb1 - 2 Rc1 - 1 Ne2 - 1 Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-10-13 at 20:01

2013-10-14, 07:23	#7
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	Very clear, and we are in agreement here. I only spent a small amount of time on the weekend, but clearly the move is from the set {Nf3, Rxx}, hehe... The e5- and f5- related discussion is what I was thinking, too. Damn, we are a good team! :smile: My score: Nf3 - 5 Rb1 - 4 Rc1 - 4 Ra2 - 2 (I don't consider the marginal column so important now, beside of attacking the pawn in the back, which is easy to defend; the big war - if any - will be on column b or c. In fact, their bishop in front of the rook is somehow bad, till they castle, if we play Rb1 that bishop is "linked", and the pawn in b5 is defenseless if we push b4. Therefore I consider Rb1 much better than Ra2. With Rc1, we do "trading", taking the column c and gibing them b. If we push on col c or take the horse out of d1, we get the column c faster than they can get b - now crowded more than before. Therefore, Rc1 is "almost" same good as Rb1) Ne2 - 1 (this is actually a bad move!) Should we play it now, or "strategically" wait? (if we play now and they answer on Sunday, we are "out of one weekend" for the next move, if you know what i mean...:razz:). On the other hand, I don't think we are going to change anything for this move: everything is very clear here, and we all agree with it. So, we could very well be fair play and speed up the game. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-10-14 at 07:29 Reason: added explanation to Ra2

2013-10-12, 20:15	#3
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	With Bb7 black is preparing to play f5. The question remains what position are we most comfortable with if that is thier plan.

2013-10-13, 18:46	#5
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 1000000001₂ Posts	My current order for the moves under consideration. 1. Nf3 disrupts blacks plans more than Ne2 2. Ra2 indirectly maintains pressure on the a column 3. Rb1 4. Ne2 5. Rc1

2013-10-14, 14:23	#8
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³·19 Posts	This could would be a good time to speed up the game since they would be more prone to making a bad move with less time time to think on our time.

2013-10-14, 14:46	#9
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 10100000110011₂ Posts	Ok, then I will post it right now.

2013-10-14, 23:44	#10
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 2²×3×641 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;356176]Rc1 - 4[/QUOTE]Let's not forget that as long as black's N/a5 remains there, pushing our c-pawn leaves a big hole for ... Nb3. [quote]Ra2 - 2[/quote]Let's not forget that with R on a2, ... b4 remains inhibited. And our B/e3 points at a7, so the a-file is not so out-of-the-action. Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-10-14 at 23:47

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