Full faith and credit and showdownarama 2013

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by jasong

I see many ditches in your future, many of them avoidable.

I would respectfully argue that could be said of many, many people...

May you live in interesting times.

Namaste.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by NBtarheel_33

I wonder how much it might have helped for President Obama to stand up and be the bigger man last night, and offer a 3- or 6-month hold on the Affordable Care Act, in exchange for putting an end to this mess.

Giving in to blackmail is not "being the bigger man".

It would have made the Republicans look like first-class heels at that point,

No, it would have given the Tea Partiers the encouragement they needed to continue being obstructionist!

and the Democrats not much better if they had been unwilling to get something worked out with them.

Democrats have repeatedly said they are quite willing to debate proposed changes to the PPACA -- in a debate about the PPACA, not a caving-in to blackmail. How have you missed that?

It would have also given Obama a few extra brownie points,

No, it would have marked him as weak, for the rest of his term.

as it would have shown that he felt more strongly about preserving the "full faith and credit" of the United States than about preserving his "signature achievement" as President.

Aside from your already-noted confusion of shutdown and debt limit, you again are backwards in your logic about what your proposed action would have done to Obama's reputation.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by Batalov

At work, we've observed that the shutdown effects show in some (not so unexpected, but still sad-looking) places:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ (for PubMed, or SNP, or genetic data)

At least this resource is not down. See http://www.nasa.gov/

But the New Horizons website is down.

[kladner]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

Giving in to blackmail is not "being the bigger man".

No, it would have given the Tea Partiers the encouragement they needed to continue being obstructionist!

Democrats have repeatedly said they are quite willing to debate proposed changes to the PPACA -- in a debate about the PPACA, not a caving-in to blackmail. How have you missed that?

No, it would have marked him as weak, for the rest of his term.

Aside from your already-noted confusion of shutdown and debt limit, you again are backwards in your logic about what your proposed action would have done to Obama's reputation.

All well said. Thank you, Richard.

[bsquared]

Originally Posted by Batalov

At work, we've observed that the shutdown effects show in some (not so unexpected, but still sad-looking) places:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ (for PubMed, or SNP, or genetic data)

At least this resource is not down. See http://www.nasa.gov/

And http://www.nist.gov/

do'h!

[chappy]

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/10/01/...-made-our-own/

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by chappy

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/10/01/...-made-our-own/

Something to think about...

The whole point of "automation" is the humans are not needed as much "in the loop".

A thought experiment: Imagine that every non-essential US of A government employee was suddenly "beamed up". Would the web-sites of the US of A's governments web-sites go offline? I would argue no.

Thus, one might reasonable conclude that humans were involved in taking these web-sites down.

Further, one might reasonable conclude that someone(s) is playing a very high-stakes game.

[chappy]

I would hazard a guess that there was some sort of pre-made procedure in place that was followed (the actual panda-cam was offline 15 minutes before the shutdown when I looked at it.)

But, there are lots of factors. I assume the websites are still being "maintained" since that is probably done by third parties. But, the webcam is probably part of a system that would be shut down. (and indeed you can go to the panda-cam web page and see a error screen where the stream usually plays.)

I don't see anything nefarious in it other than the general drudgery of bureaucracy.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by chappy

I would hazard a guess that there was some sort of pre-made procedure in place that was followed (the actual panda-cam was offline 15 minutes before the shutdown when I looked at it.)

It would be interesting to know if "Last one out: shut off the power and the connectivity to the building." was part of the procedure.

Because otherwise I can't think of a reason that web-cam went off-line exactly when it did.

Also, separately, very few US of A government web-sites are off-line (read: they still have power and connectivity). They simply often don't have as much of the data or services they used to.

I respectively argue that something interesting is going on here (NSS)....

[kladner]

My immediate thought is that this a visible way of "sending a message" about government services which might otherwise be taken for granted, or not connected to the funding impasse. This is, after all, a PR battle, among other things.

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by kladner

My immediate thought is that this a visible way of "sending a message" about government services which might otherwise be taken for granted, or not connected to the funding impasse. This is, after all, a PR battle, among other things.

There does appear to be a "hostage taking" aspect to the PR here .... spotted out there in the intertubes is this from a DC-area resident:

The National Park Service is sending so many officials out to shut down federal parks from visiting Americans that at this rate it might have to suspend furloughs if the government closure continues.

Two examples:

-- At the World War II Memorial on The Mall in Washington, where veterans have been staging protests to keep it open, Washington Examiner's Charlie Spiering reports that at least seven officials were dispatched Wednesday morning to set up a ring of barricades to block tourists from the memorial. That is two more than the State Department had in Benghazi a year ago on the night of the terrorist attack that killed four, including the U.S. ambassador.

-- National Park Officials closed down the educational Claude Moore Colonial Farm near the CIA in McLean, Va., even though the federal government doesn't fund or staff the park popular with children and schools. Just because the privately-operated park is on Park Service land, making the federal government simply its landlord, the agency decided to close it.

A Claude Moore Colonial Farm official said that the privately-funded staff is on the job Wednesday, but barred from letting anybody visit the historically accurate buildings or animals. Anna Eberly, the managing director, sent out an email decrying the decision and rude National Park Service staff handling the closure.

Pointing to Park Service claims that parks have to be closed because the agency can’t afford staff during the government closure, Eberly wrote: “What utter crap. We have operated the Farm successfully for 32 years after the NPS cut the Farm from its budget in 1980 and are fully staffed and prepared to open today. But there are barricades at the Pavilions and entrance to the Farm. And if you were to park on the grass and visit on your own, you run the risk of being arrested. Of course, that will cost the NPS staff salaries to police the Farm against intruders while leaving it open will cost them nothing.”