Full faith and credit and showdownarama 2013

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

I agree in principle, (partially) but I believe that a large part of
why they got elected has more to do with the anti-abortion, anti-gay,
anti-black, anti-everything ideology of Republicans in general.
They want to turn this country into a Christian Theocracy.
I imagine that it would be a horrible tyranny; possible worse than Iran
and Saudi Arabia.

BTW:

Obama won. Twice.

We need term limits.

Republicans need to bring back Barry Goldwater

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
.....
The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom.... I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?... I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."

[firejuggler]

just to cite someone else, cn't remember where
' I don't need stone tablets to know that murder is wrong'

[kladner]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

Republicans need to bring back Barry Goldwater

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
.....
The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom.... I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?... I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."

Damned if he didn't hit it right on the head. I would have to look it up, but I remember Goldwater being mad as hell at a Republican then-"leader" in Congress. Said "leader" was flogging some irrelevant piece of grandstanding garbage which called Congress back into session for meaningless show votes.

There was a time I'd have laughed at the idea of missing ol' Barry. I worked for Gene McCarthy's campaign as a kid, and Goldwater scared me. But that was before I realized how much of a sham and deception the whole system is. Barry was honest, at least as far as such things go.

Even Tricky Dick Nixon doesn't look so bad in forty year hindsight.

How low we have sunk!

[Batalov]

Originally Posted by kladner

...Barry was honest, at least as far as such things go.

Even Tricky Dick Nixon doesn't look so bad in forty year hindsight.

How low we have sunk!

Can't help remembering good ol' George:

Originally Posted by George Carlin

...Remember, the founders were a small group of unelected, white, male, land-holding slave owners who also, by the way, suggested their class be the only one allowed to vote. To my mind, that is what’s known as being stunningly—and embarrassingly—full of shit. And everybody bought it.All Americans bought it.

And those same Americans continue to show their ignorance with all this nonsense about wanting their politicians to be honest. What are these cretins thinking? Do they realize what they’re wishing for? If honesty were suddenly introduced into American life, everything would collapse. It would destroy this country, because our system is based on an intricate and delicately balanced system of lies.

And I think that somehow, deep down, Americans understand this. That’s why they elected—and reelected—Bill Clinton. Because given a choice, Americans prefer their bullshit right out front, where they can get a good, strong whiff of it. Clinton may have been full of shit, but at least he let you know it. And people like that.

In ’96, Dole tried to hide his bullshit, and he lost. He kept saying, “I’m a plain and honest man.” People don’t believe that. What did Clinton say? He said, “Hi folks! I’m completely full of shit, and how do you like that?” And the people said, “You know what? At least he’s honest. At least he’s honest about being completely full of shit.”

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by Batalov

Can't help remembering good ol' George:

George also introduced the 11'th commandment:

Keep thy religion to thyself.

[Batalov]

At work, we've observed that the shutdown effects show in some (not so unexpected, but still sad-looking) places:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ (for PubMed, or SNP, or genetic data)

At least this resource is not down. See http://www.nasa.gov/

[only_human]

MSNBC's Chris Matthews made a point on the 29th about the reversal of quid and quo:

CHRIS MATTHEWS:
09:38:00:00 Yeah, I think we're in an explosive situation in terms of the constitution. I think it's going to continue. I'm not as sublime as you are. I think the difference is, it's like in a kidnapping, you grab the baby and ask for the money. In this case, they grabbed the money and asked for the baby. Obama's not going to give them his baby. You can't negotiate this.

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

However, it has been law for 3 years, was upheld by SCOTUS, and 40+ previous attempts to repeal it have failed.

I suggest you need to be careful using SCOTUS as "proof of legitimacy" - after all this is the same SC which held that "corporations are people". Except that no matter how grave the crimes they engage in they can't be put in jail, apparently.

W.r.to Obamacare, the SC majority was only able to convince themselves that it is constitutional based on the tortured logic of decreeing it as "a tax", even though the bill writers and the administration repeatedly and loudly stressed that it was *not* a tax. In my eyes, if the only way you infer constitutionality of something is by turning the constitutional on its head, you have a serious legitimacy problem. Similarly tortured logic - abetted by Kafkaesque secret laws and courts, no less! - lies behind the rampant disregard for the 4th amendment we are seeing on the part of the post-9/11 surveillance state that has arisen in this country.

Bottom line" "Full faith and credit" is as big a joke in the US as is the "trust fund" description of social security - as in "trust me when I say, the fund has all been borrowed and spent," in its place is a pile of government IOUs. And again, that was done in thoroughly bipartisan fashion.

If the government could only operate for the portion of each year that it was actually funded for by revenues, it would be 100% shut down for over 4 months out of each year. *That* is the real problem here.

[NBtarheel_33]

Originally Posted by Batalov

At work, we've observed that the shutdown effects show in some (not so unexpected, but still sad-looking) places:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ (for PubMed, or SNP, or genetic data)

At least this resource is not down. See http://www.nasa.gov/

CNN mentioned this morning that today is NASA's 55th birthday, but no one could come to party.

Much of the data-crunching services are down, including the economic bureaus, the CDC epidemic/pandemic trackers (right as we begin flu season), and NOAA/NWS (hope hurricane season stays as quiet for the US as it has been thus far this year).

I wonder how much it might have helped for President Obama to stand up and be the bigger man last night, and offer a 3- or 6-month hold on the Affordable Care Act, in exchange for putting an end to this mess. It would have made the Republicans look like first-class heels at that point, and the Democrats not much better if they had been unwilling to get something worked out with them. It would have also given Obama a few extra brownie points, as it would have shown that he felt more strongly about preserving the "full faith and credit" of the United States than about preserving his "signature achievement" as President. Furthermore, it would have had the desirous side-effect (for Democrats) of angering the populace in favor of Obamacare, against the Republicans.

IMHO, I'd like to see all 535 members of both houses replaced in 2014. I don't see where any of them can, want to, or will have any efficacy in running this country successfully. Think of it this way: if the McDonald's board of directors run the company so ineffectively that it essentially had to shutdown worldwide operations even for an hour(!), what do you suppose the shareholders would do? How much do you pay each year in Federal taxes? Are we not shareholders in our government?

[only_human]

Originally Posted by NBtarheel_33

I wonder how much it might have helped for President Obama to stand up and be the bigger man last night, and offer a 3- or 6-month hold on the Affordable Care Act, in exchange for putting an end to this mess. It would have made the Republicans look like first-class heels at that point, and the Democrats not much better if they had been unwilling to get something worked out with them. It would have also given Obama a few extra brownie points, as it would have shown that he felt more strongly about preserving the "full faith and credit" of the United States than about preserving his "signature achievement" as President. Furthermore, it would have had the desirous side-effect (for Democrats) of angering the populace in favor of Obamacare, against the Republicans.

Respectively, bunk.
First the full faith and credit fight hasn't even happened yet. This is just deck chairs on the Titanic. The debt-ceiling is the next fight (mid October) where sovereign default is a genuine threat.
Second, putting a 3 month hold on the ACA for a 2 month CR just briefly appeases the wolf at the door and whets appetites for more. It is weakness; do not show weakness to a hungry wolf.

"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
   No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
   And the nation that plays it is lost!"

[jasong]

Government shutdown explained in the form of rap.