Full faith and credit and showdownarama 2013

[chappy]

0 days. Last minute coalition of (what counts as) moderate Republicans see the doom of their party spelled out in brinksmanship politics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...Party_movement

granted that is a list of people endorsed by tea party as well as people endorsing the tea party--still I'd say for being such a new and and utterly clueless movement they are doing pretty well for themselves. See also government shutdown.

Re: military cuts. I don't think that's a true litmus test for TP's it might separate out all the libertarian/ultra-fiscals, but I would hazard a guess that most people who self-identify with the tea party also strongly support the military and military spending.

I'm not even sure that can be should be construed as hypocritical--provide for the common defense is actually spelled out in the Constitution that they have read the preamble to.

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by chappy

Re: military cuts. I don't think that's a true litmus test for TP's it might separate out all the libertarian/ultra-fiscals, but I would hazard a guess that most people who self-identify with the tea party also strongly support the military and military spending.

So what would you use as a test? Ideally something in the actual voting record rather than just he said, she said -- people say a lot of things in politics.

[only_human]

Shutdown Liveblog [theatlanticwire.com]

Updates

10:08 p.m. A somewhat unexpected move, as reports surface that House Republicans will call for a conference committee to draft compromise legislation with the Senate. In other words, an apparent end to "CR volley." This with about 110 minutes until the end of the fiscal year.

That proposal goes to the House Rules Committee at 10:30.

10:03 p.m. Another Republican senator weighs in, via Dave Weigel. Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona: "Obamacare's not popular, but we've managed to find the one thing less popular than Obamacare."

[chappy]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

So what would you use as a test? Ideally something in the actual voting record rather than just he said, she said -- people say a lot of things in politics.

Like with so many other amorphous terms in life the only true litmus test is self-identification.

Consider abortion, for example, I have a 'crunchy' lacktivist, atheist, leftest friend who is as adamantly opposed to abortion as the last Pope. Yet, it is often said that for liberals being pro-choice is a litmus test.

Now, I know what you are thinking--yes there are a few exceptions but overall the broad swath of tea partiers would think one way or the other on the issue. I disagree. The few people I know who self-identify as Tea Partiers are all former or current military or military spouses. And a couple libertarians who don't identify as Tea Party but are sympathetic. The latter would pass your litmus test but the former would not.

The plural of anecdote is anecdotes not data, but I've also had some small dealings with the Tea Party grassroots types here in St. Louis. They seem to be anti-big guvment and pro-concealed weapons, lacking any sort of coherent argument for either they spout endless invective at our Muslim Kenyan leader. Next time I engage with them I will ask what they think of military spending and whether we should spend as little on it as we do on social programs.

[chappy]

Originally Posted by chappy

0 days. Last minute coalition of (what counts as) moderate Republicans see the doom of their party spelled out in brinksmanship politics.

I lose, though Pete King tried to make me (and the American people) win.

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by chappy

Like with so many other amorphous terms in life the only true litmus test is self-identification.

Ah. So in that case nothing can be said of their politics.

Well, that simplifies that discussion!

[kladner]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

Ah. So in that case nothing can be said of their politics.

Well, that simplifies that discussion!

Rationality is not part of the picture. Most of the TP people are manipulated by slogans which they do not examine, much less understand. They think that the POTUS is a Kenya-born Socialist, rather than a thoroughly US American, Clintonian, Corporatist. Remember. These are people who wave about signs which say "Keep your government hands off my Medicare!", and conflate Fascism, Socialism, Communism, and a bunch of other -isms which they would not recognize if they were bitten in the ass by them.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

Ah. So in that case nothing can be said of their politics.

Well, that simplifies that discussion!

Perhaps the Tea Party is similar in some respects with far-right movements in many countries here in Europe which have gained significant ground in the past ten years.

And in the European cases, the unifying concept is populism. The politicians from these parties just make lots of noise designed to appeal to a large section of the public (often at the expense of smaller groups, typically on nationalist or religious grounds, and thereby hatemongering against those smaller groups - this last feature could possibly be the litmus test of European populist parties) without bothering to have any serious policies which are effective in government.

If the Tea Party is similar in that respect, then it is indeed reasonable to say that nothing can be said of their politics.

From reading Kieren's description above re lack of rationality, I feel even safer in comparing the Tea Party with Europe's new far-right parties, by the way.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by kladner

Rationality is not part of the picture. Most of the TP people are manipulated by slogans which they do not examine, much less understand. They think that the POTUS is a Kenya-born Socialist, rather than a thoroughly US American, Clintonian, Corporatist. Remember. These are people who wave about signs which say "Keep your government hands off my Medicare!", and conflate Fascism, Socialism, Communism, and a bunch of other -isms which they would not recognize if they were bitten in the ass by them.

Agreement.

It all stems from ignorance. Which is not a big surprise since you will
find tea baggers located in the least educated regions of the U.S.

I also have a theory about why they hate Obamacare.

(1) They despise him because he is black.
(2) During the recent election Republicans running for office routinely
opposed Obamacare as a matter of course. They fed a lot of false and
misleading propoganda about the ACA to their base as part of standard
politics in an election. Now, they can't back off from their position.
And the ignoramuses who constitute the Republican party swallowed the
propoganda.

However, it has been law for 3 years, was upheld by SCOTUS, and 40+
previous attempts to repeal it have failed.

MOVE ON. Fight over something else.

[firejuggler]

They got elected BECAUSE they opposed 'Obamacare'. If they want to stay in power, they can't change that.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by firejuggler

They got elected BECAUSE they opposed 'Obamacare'. If they want to stay in power, they can't change that.

I agree in principle, (partially) but I believe that a large part of
why they got elected has more to do with the anti-abortion, anti-gay,
anti-black, anti-everything ideology of Republicans in general.
They want to turn this country into a Christian Theocracy.
I imagine that it would be a horrible tyranny; possible worse than Iran
and Saudi Arabia.

BTW:

Obama won. Twice.

We need term limits.