Official "Lasciate ogne speranza" whinge-thread

[kladner]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

Why do you post with such low S/N ratios?

.

Irony of ironies, saith the Preacher, irony of ironies; all is irony.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

I'm not insisting that every itty-bitty off-topic post be removed from all forum threads. I'm just concerned with the incomplete and unfair treatment in this particular thread. The five posts I list here are all connected to the same reason for off-topicness as the posts you _did_ move, so should be treated the same!

I agree that what I did was unfair and repeat my apology to you. It was my best effort to bring the earlier thread back on track. I am normally extremely reticent to take any such action at all, but I felt that the particular sequence of posts which I moved had derailed an interesting thread. Again, some of all of the supermods will disagree with me and may move the other off-topic posts elsewhere if they choose.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

If you:

continue to mislead your readers about the actual separate issues #1 and #2 above, and/or

disguise your objections to them by couching them as though they referred to issue #3 or some other irrelevancy, and/or

use phrases such as "Beats trying to have any kind of rational discussion with Herr Käsekopf, don't it?" without having first tried to have such rational discussion without dishonesty, evasion and sarcasm,

then I will continue pointing out your deceptions and evasions in whatever part of the forum is available to me, but without inserting such remarks into threads where they'd be off-topic. (This is my goal. I may occasionally forget and make such an off-topic post, but I will appreciate having that mistake promptly pointed out to me.)

Folks,

I apologize for that silly part. It was the fatigue talking there.

The more sensible alternative, of course, is that (if Ernst continues his disguises, deceptions, evasions etc.) I'd simply set up a list of rules to use in interpreting Ernst's (mis)behavior, together with a number of illustrative examples, and let that stand as a guide for anyone else to see Ernst's patterns for themselves.

- - -

Speaking of patterns:

Ernst,

Your pattern of using "extreme political bias", after you had introduced it, gave you away. I noticed that you introduced it not long after I'd pointed out problems with your logic and evidence a while back, but later dropped it. Then you resumed its frequent use again only right after I'd again pointed out flaws in your argument. That's a pattern. (Cf. a recent Supreme Court decision.)

Another pattern was what someone said about your always being jolly and joking. That's a pattern used by folks who disguise their expressions of anger in supposedly-"humorous" sarcasm. As I said, I have no trouble recognizing sarcasm -- the difficult part is figuring out the real motive.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

As I said, I have no trouble recognizing sarcasm -- the difficult part is figuring out the real motive.

A good rule of thumb is never to ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by xilman

A good rule of thumb is never to ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

That's what I did with Ernst's sarcasm -- for a long time (years). But his banishing my on-topic post in May of last year, together with the ridiculously-false verbal abuse hurled by him and others, changed things -- the "humor" was gone. Then his recent actions confirmed that and further enlightened me.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

That's what I did with Ernst's sarcasm -- for a long time (years)..

Richard... I learnt a long time ago that there is little upside in whining about how one perceives oneself has been wronged.

Play the hand dealt.

(Was that also too low S/N for you?)

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

That's what I did with Ernst's sarcasm -- for a long time (years).

And here I thought I was being sardonic.

Originally Posted by cheesehead

Reason: corrected "last May" to "May of last year"

Thanks - that confusion had me up nights much of the past week. :irony:

Cheesehead, in all seriousness, did your doctor ever diagnose your recent exhaustion? Because I suspect a chart of your weekly post volume over the past several months would prove highly illuminating in that regard.

[cheesehead]

Folks,

I've participated in several online forums over the past eighteen years.

In no other forum than this one have I encountered the level of hostility expressed toward me that I've experienced here since May 2012.

You may think I'm doing something "wrong" (aside from the specifics of Ernst's enmity), but if that were actually, really true, why has no one at any other forum sensed that "wrongness"?

May 2012 was when Ernst, for the first time, actually banished a perfectly on-topic post of mine to a separate thread, removing it from the thread in which I had sincerely posted it without any goal of disruption -- without even trying to present any evidence justifying that action other than some baseless, absurdly false political "accusations". (I was astonished by the rapidity with which some others joined in that evidence-free bashing. But Ernst is a very persuasive writer even when, or especially when, he's not being honest.)

Ernst has never given a rational explanation for that action, and never apologized. I've managed to figure out some of his motive with the assistance of the few folks here who are willing to make straightforward honest statements to me about this matter. I thank those folks.

To the rest of you:
Are you so mesmerized and persuaded by Ernst's campaign to discredit me (as a respectable critic of his flaws) that you've adopted his distaste for me, too, without having any evidence to justify it? He _is_ very persuasive -- except for the not-showing-any-evidence-to-support-his-accusations business.

I do need to apologize for certain irritating posts that I deliberately made over the past year for the purpose of getting more information about motives of the folks (principally Ernst, but also some others) who made false statements about me. I won't be irritating you by continuing those any more.

And once again, I wish to say that I admire and have learned from, the mountain of legitimate contributions Ernst has made to this forum, especially about economics. His recent behavior toward me has tarnished that record, but is correctable if he'll admit what he did.

- - -

Originally Posted by chalsall

(Was that also too low S/N for you?)

Yes. Can you possibly bring yourself to utter simple declarative sentences without resort to metaphors, wise sayings, allusions, or phrases from The Art of War that only disguise your meaning?

- - -

Originally Posted by ewmayer

And here I thought I was being sardonic.

Not the humorous kind of sardonic. Not an informative or friendly kind, either.

Cheesehead, in all seriousness, did your doctor ever diagnose your recent exhaustion?

I have an appointment tomorrow to continue the diagnostic process.

Because I suspect a chart of your weekly post volume over the past several months would prove highly illuminating in that regard.

Yes, you'd like to blame my recent exhaustion for my critique of your dishonesty instead of acknowledging your actual motives and dishonesty, wouldn't you?

Unfortunately for you, my exhaustion started much too recently for that to be correlated over "the past several months". Also unfortunate for that ploy is that I can document your forum posts in which you displayed the behavior to which I refer.

Another obstacle in the way of blaming it all on the medical condition is that no one in the other forums where I've participated (before and) since May 2012 has made any comment that they've noticed any change in me (as reflected by my posts in their forum).

Only in this forum, and only from you plus a few others who seem susceptible to your persuasive discrediting campaign, have I received any noticeable change in the way folks have treated me in the past year.

Care to admit that you dislike my criterion for deciding what to post, even though it's quite in accord with this forum's stated goal and rules?

Care to admit that you stepped up your sarcasm and false accusations of extremism toward me after I inconveniently pointed out flaws in your political arguments, or again and again pointed out your failure to present evidence to support your arguments?

Hmmm... ?

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

Unfortunately for you, my exhaustion started much too recently for that to be correlated over "the past several months". Also unfortunate for that ploy is that I can document your forum posts in which you displayed the behavior to which I refer.

Around late May to early June, perhaps?

This is somewhat crude in that it lumps quoted text into the byte count ... OTOH it omits the text originally typed in later-retracted posts, and textual changes that occurred in fiddled-with posts. I expect the averaged-by-week trends are quite significant despite these shortcomings:

4/14-4/20: 10 posts  6.4 kB
4/21-4/27: 11 posts  4.3 kB
4/28-5/04: 10 posts  6.9 kB
5/05-5/11:  9 posts  3.7 kB
5/12-5/18: 12 posts 10.1 kB
5/19-5/25: 27 posts 29.8 kB
5/26-6/01: 33 posts 34.3 kB
6/02-6/08: 33 posts 51.5 kB
6/09-6/15: 15 posts  1.4 kB   <*** 6/09: Richard notes needing to take a break due to exhaustion
6/16-6/22: 17 posts  2.6 kB

30\-50 kB is roughly equivalent to a 5000+ word essay. I daresay that would leave most people feeling exhausted.

[Prime95]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

May 2012 was when Ernst, for the first time, actually banished a perfectly on-topic post of mine to a separate thread, removing it from the thread in which I had sincerely posted it without any goal of disruption -- without even trying to present any evidence justifying that action other than some baseless, absurdly false political "accusations".

Ernst has never given a rational explanation for that action, and never apologized. I've managed to figure out some of his motive with the assistance of the few folks here who are willing to make straightforward honest statements to me about this matter.

I believe I explained this to you in a PM. You *volunteered* to have your on-topic post banished to another thread!! See this post where Ernst calls for a moratorium on the Obama budgeting digression your original post started.

Originally Posted by ewmayer

I'm going to impose a mandatory cease-posting on the what has degenerated to pointless bickering at the point.

Four hours later you posted a 14 paragraph continuation of the digression. You were told what would happen and your actions made it happen.

It is not uncommon for moderators to split a thread that has digressed from the original thread. That is how this thread started. No malice is intended, it is done for the convenience of forum readers.

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

This is somewhat crude in that it lumps quoted text into the byte count ... OTOH it omits the text originally typed in later-retracted posts, and textual changes that occurred in fiddled-with posts. I expect the averaged-by-week trends are quite significant despite these shortcomings

Note the byte-count may overstate things due to lumping-in of quoted text - but OTOH things are probably understated due to necessary omission of "whingings via PM, e-mail and other media".

And of course the above snapshot is only for *this* forum - Richard has mentioned participating in others. [I only find myself willing/able to spare time for this one - more than I should, but hey, that's why I gave up viewing internet p0rn - something had to go.] So basically a 5000-word essay per week for 3 weeks running in addition to whatever else life offers/requires.

I wish now I'd counted "total number of quoteboxes within posts" as a proxy for emotional excitedness. Ah well - but anyone wanting to waste several hours of their life is welcome to do so.

Originally Posted by Prime95

I believe I explained this to you in a PM.

Thanks, George, but I suspect your metaphorical breath will be wasted - if we operated in similar fashion as RW, I'd still be crying endlessly here about "cheesehead slandering me unconscionably", and you'd be filling multipage threads about cheesehead having called you a liar in public.

(Re george's offending post in question, at worst it's a "misreading" or a "tendentious characterization", which is rather lesser offense than a falsehood. Just like he-who-must-not-be-criticized-by-name-by-the-godless-forum-infidels Obama never lies or screws up, merely is the hapless victim of "missteps".)