The perfect (number) 28th black move

LaurV · 2013-05-14, 13:59

I missed the "cube 27" and "sandwich 26" titles for the thread, now I am recouping it.. hehe

So, now their situation will rapidly deteriorate after either we go [B]28...Re3[/B] or either we go (as discussed before) [B]28...Bf5[/B], both moves win the game.

I especially like Bf5, as it is more aggressive. The position is different of what we discussed before, because we have now the rook advanced, and his knight is [B]blocking[/B] the bishop. In fact, now the Qc1 move, which worried us before, it is not good anymore, as they have no place for the bishop. Ex: 28...Bf5 29.Qc1,Rc6 30.Bb7,Rb8 etc, and the bishop is lost for a pawn, they have no place to move it. On the other path (only two are possible without losing the queen), 29.Qf2 we can't move the rook to Rc5 anymore, but after 29..Re3, they can't beat the pawn (lose the horse after Be4) and the white is totally cornered, it can't get out from there. So, same logic as before, I like Bf5 because we still can do Re3 after their forced move. The future goal is to develop our black square bishop either in e5 or c5 (after f8) and they can't avoid the heat of the checkmate.

OTOH, moving the rook directly, 28..Re3, cuts all the queen's exits, and if they do not move that horse back (wasted move!) they are going to lose it for free, or better, after Qf2 we go Bf5 and are in the same position as above. Note that now, after 28...Re3, then 29.Qc1 is not good anymore! we can push 29...b4, and they can do [B]nothing[/B] to avoid transformation (beside of giving the queen, of course). If the queen stays there, but the knight moves, we have Bg4/Bd1, a very strong attack "from the back". White is doomed, anyhow...

So, what do you think? [B]Re3 [/B]or [B]Bf5[/B]? We win in either case.

science_man_88 · 2013-05-14, 14:43

[QUOTE=LaurV;340390]I missed the "cube 27" and "sandwich 26" titles for the thread, now I am recouping it.. hehe

So, now their situation will rapidly deteriorate after either we go [B]28...Re3[/B] or either we go (as discussed before) [B]28...Bf5[/B], both moves win the game.

I especially like Bf5, as it is more aggressive. The position is different of what we discussed before, because we have now the rook advanced, and his knight is [B]blocking[/B] the bishop. In fact, now the Qc1 move, which worried us before, it is not good anymore, as they have no place for the bishop. Ex: 28...Bf5 29.Qc1,Rc6 30.Bb7,Rb8 etc, and the bishop is lost for a pawn, they have no place to move it. On the other path (only two are possible without losing the queen), 29.Qf2 we can't move the rook to Rc5 anymore, but after 29..Re3, they can't beat the pawn (lose the horse after Be4) and the white is totally cornered, it can't get out from there. So, same logic as before, I like Bf5 because we still can do Re3 after their forced move. The future goal is to develop our black square bishop either in e5 or c5 (after f8) and they can't avoid the heat of the checkmate.

OTOH, moving the rook directly, 28..Re3, cuts all the queen's exits, and if they do not move that horse back (wasted move!) they are going to lose it for free, or better, after Qf2 we go Bf5 and are in the same position as above. Note that now, after 28...Re3, then 29.Qc1 is not good anymore! we can push 29...b4, and they can do [B]nothing[/B] to avoid transformation (beside of giving the queen, of course). If the queen stays there, but the knight moves, we have Bg4/Bd1, a very strong attack "from the back". White is doomed, anyhow...

So, what do you think? [B]Re3 [/B]or [B]Bf5[/B]? We win in either case.[/QUOTE]

I would like Bf5 personally.

LaurV · 2013-05-15, 17:30

Ok, two days passed, if no other objection I will post the move. The game is even more clear now, they have limited possibilities if they want to keep the queen, there is only Qc1 or Qf2 available. As said, Qc2 is bad, he loses the bishop for free, and later loses the horse and the queen too, for a bishop and a rook, or takes a mate.

I envision a continuation like 29.Qf2 Re3 30.h4 b4 31.cxb4 c3 32. bxc3 Rxc3 33.b5 Rc2 34. Qxc2 Bxc2, where we play a rook and a bishop against a poor knight, very clear black win. All the other paths are worse for white. They have to give the queen anyhow later, to avoid the mate, no matter what path they take.

LaurV · 2013-05-23, 04:15

[QUOTE=LaurV;340571] I envision a continuation like 29.[B]Qf2[/B] [COLOR=Blue][B]Re3[/B][/COLOR] ... [/QUOTE]

I didn't want to open a new thread for this, we are "on the right path". This move is somehow forced, otherwise he evades with the queen and we have a lot more trouble later. From here (after Re3) it does not really matter how we go (or how they go, more exactly). If they play h4, as assumed before, we have Bg4 which is even better then the "envisioned" path, as it puts a lot more pressure on that corner and on their king. They can't beat the pawn (they take the second pawn after Be4 links the horse, but no "safe" place to put the king anymore, need to exchange the queen for a rock - they will end into this situation sooner or later no matter what: 30.Bxb5,Be4 31.Bxc4,Kh8 32.Be2,Rd2 33.Kf1,Bxf3 34.Bxf3,Rxf2 35.Kxf2, [B]we play with a rook and a pawn advantage[/B] as his three pawns on the queen side are gone fast).

Running with the horse - the only reasonable place is g1, other places would be terrible mistakes - is not good either, they lose it after Rd1 with Ree1.

So, if there are no objections to [COLOR=Blue][B]29...Re3[/B][/COLOR], then I am going to post it tomorrow. (It seems not so much interest around anyhow... people are busy with the real life... maybe we should have been accepted Davieddy in the team, at least he would give some more colors to the discussions :razz:, but now it is too late, the game is finished anyhow).

science_man_88 · 2013-05-23, 12:04

[QUOTE=LaurV;341304]I didn't want to open a new thread for this, we are "on the right path". This move is somehow forced, otherwise he evades with the queen and we have a lot more trouble later. From here (after Re3) it does not really matter how we go (or how they go, more exactly). If they play h4, as assumed before, we have Bg4 which is even better then the "envisioned" path, as it puts a lot more pressure on that corner and on their king. They can't beat the pawn (they take the second pawn after Be4 links the horse, but no "safe" place to put the king anymore, need to exchange the queen for a rock - they will end into this situation sooner or later no matter what: 30.Bxb5,Be4 31.Bxc4,Kh8 32.Be2,Rd2 33.Kf1,Bxf3 34.Bxf3,Rxf2 35.Kxf2, [B]we play with a rook and a pawn advantage[/B] as his three pawns on the queen side are gone fast).

Running with the horse - the only reasonable place is g1, other places would be terrible mistakes - is not good either, they lose it after Rd1 with Ree1.

So, if there are no objections to [COLOR=blue][B]29...Re3[/B][/COLOR], then I am going to post it tomorrow. (It seems not so much interest around anyhow... people are busy with the real life... maybe we should have been accepted Davieddy in the team, at least he would give some more colors to the discussions :razz:, but now it is too late, the game is finished anyhow).[/QUOTE]

we could sack with Be4, to get rid of it they have to capture with the bishop , and it stalls the knight since if it moves the king goes in check. but of course sacking pieces this late is not a great idea, so the rook moves are probably best. I don't object to Re3 since it attacks the knight is protected and if we don't want to lose the rook right then we can use or bishop to attack the knight again from the other side. they might be going for Qxa7 next though.

WMHalsdorf · 2013-05-24, 00:04

I like all the possible lines after 29....Re3

science_man_88 · 2013-06-01, 14:08

they appear to have replied a3 , lets see where we go from here.

2013-05-14, 13:59	#1
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41·251 Posts	The perfect (number) 28th black move I missed the "cube 27" and "sandwich 26" titles for the thread, now I am recouping it.. hehe So, now their situation will rapidly deteriorate after either we go [B]28...Re3[/B] or either we go (as discussed before) [B]28...Bf5[/B], both moves win the game. I especially like Bf5, as it is more aggressive. The position is different of what we discussed before, because we have now the rook advanced, and his knight is [B]blocking[/B] the bishop. In fact, now the Qc1 move, which worried us before, it is not good anymore, as they have no place for the bishop. Ex: 28...Bf5 29.Qc1,Rc6 30.Bb7,Rb8 etc, and the bishop is lost for a pawn, they have no place to move it. On the other path (only two are possible without losing the queen), 29.Qf2 we can't move the rook to Rc5 anymore, but after 29..Re3, they can't beat the pawn (lose the horse after Be4) and the white is totally cornered, it can't get out from there. So, same logic as before, I like Bf5 because we still can do Re3 after their forced move. The future goal is to develop our black square bishop either in e5 or c5 (after f8) and they can't avoid the heat of the checkmate. OTOH, moving the rook directly, 28..Re3, cuts all the queen's exits, and if they do not move that horse back (wasted move!) they are going to lose it for free, or better, after Qf2 we go Bf5 and are in the same position as above. Note that now, after 28...Re3, then 29.Qc1 is not good anymore! we can push 29...b4, and they can do [B]nothing[/B] to avoid transformation (beside of giving the queen, of course). If the queen stays there, but the knight moves, we have Bg4/Bd1, a very strong attack "from the back". White is doomed, anyhow... So, what do you think? [B]Re3 [/B]or [B]Bf5[/B]? We win in either case. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-05-14 at 14:04 Reason: bold here and there

2013-05-15, 17:30	#3
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41·251 Posts	Ok, two days passed, if no other objection I will post the move. The game is even more clear now, they have limited possibilities if they want to keep the queen, there is only Qc1 or Qf2 available. As said, Qc2 is bad, he loses the bishop for free, and later loses the horse and the queen too, for a bishop and a rook, or takes a mate. I envision a continuation like 29.Qf2 Re3 30.h4 b4 31.cxb4 c3 32. bxc3 Rxc3 33.b5 Rc2 34. Qxc2 Bxc2, where we play a rook and a bishop against a poor knight, very clear black win. All the other paths are worse for white. They have to give the queen anyhow later, to avoid the mate, no matter what path they take. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-05-15 at 17:31

2013-05-23, 04:15	#4
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41·251 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;340571] I envision a continuation like 29.[B]Qf2[/B] [COLOR=Blue][B]Re3[/B][/COLOR] ... [/QUOTE] I didn't want to open a new thread for this, we are "on the right path". This move is somehow forced, otherwise he evades with the queen and we have a lot more trouble later. From here (after Re3) it does not really matter how we go (or how they go, more exactly). If they play h4, as assumed before, we have Bg4 which is even better then the "envisioned" path, as it puts a lot more pressure on that corner and on their king. They can't beat the pawn (they take the second pawn after Be4 links the horse, but no "safe" place to put the king anymore, need to exchange the queen for a rock - they will end into this situation sooner or later no matter what: 30.Bxb5,Be4 31.Bxc4,Kh8 32.Be2,Rd2 33.Kf1,Bxf3 34.Bxf3,Rxf2 35.Kxf2, [B]we play with a rook and a pawn advantage[/B] as his three pawns on the queen side are gone fast). Running with the horse - the only reasonable place is g1, other places would be terrible mistakes - is not good either, they lose it after Rd1 with Ree1. So, if there are no objections to [COLOR=Blue][B]29...Re3[/B][/COLOR], then I am going to post it tomorrow. (It seems not so much interest around anyhow... people are busy with the real life... maybe we should have been accepted Davieddy in the team, at least he would give some more colors to the discussions :razz:, but now it is too late, the game is finished anyhow). Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2021-08-26 at 07:43

2013-05-23, 12:04	#5
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 10000100001101₂ Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;341304]I didn't want to open a new thread for this, we are "on the right path". This move is somehow forced, otherwise he evades with the queen and we have a lot more trouble later. From here (after Re3) it does not really matter how we go (or how they go, more exactly). If they play h4, as assumed before, we have Bg4 which is even better then the "envisioned" path, as it puts a lot more pressure on that corner and on their king. They can't beat the pawn (they take the second pawn after Be4 links the horse, but no "safe" place to put the king anymore, need to exchange the queen for a rock - they will end into this situation sooner or later no matter what: 30.Bxb5,Be4 31.Bxc4,Kh8 32.Be2,Rd2 33.Kf1,Bxf3 34.Bxf3,Rxf2 35.Kxf2, [B]we play with a rook and a pawn advantage[/B] as his three pawns on the queen side are gone fast). Running with the horse - the only reasonable place is g1, other places would be terrible mistakes - is not good either, they lose it after Rd1 with Ree1. So, if there are no objections to [COLOR=blue][B]29...Re3[/B][/COLOR], then I am going to post it tomorrow. (It seems not so much interest around anyhow... people are busy with the real life... maybe we should have been accepted Davieddy in the team, at least he would give some more colors to the discussions :razz:, but now it is too late, the game is finished anyhow).[/QUOTE] we could sack with Be4, to get rid of it they have to capture with the bishop , and it stalls the knight since if it moves the king goes in check. but of course sacking pieces this late is not a great idea, so the rook moves are probably best. I don't object to Re3 since it attacks the knight is protected and if we don't want to lose the rook right then we can use or bishop to attack the knight again from the other side. they might be going for Qxa7 next though. Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2013-05-23 at 12:06

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2013-05-14, 14:43	#2
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;340390]I missed the "cube 27" and "sandwich 26" titles for the thread, now I am recouping it.. hehe So, now their situation will rapidly deteriorate after either we go [B]28...Re3[/B] or either we go (as discussed before) [B]28...Bf5[/B], both moves win the game. I especially like Bf5, as it is more aggressive. The position is different of what we discussed before, because we have now the rook advanced, and his knight is [B]blocking[/B] the bishop. In fact, now the Qc1 move, which worried us before, it is not good anymore, as they have no place for the bishop. Ex: 28...Bf5 29.Qc1,Rc6 30.Bb7,Rb8 etc, and the bishop is lost for a pawn, they have no place to move it. On the other path (only two are possible without losing the queen), 29.Qf2 we can't move the rook to Rc5 anymore, but after 29..Re3, they can't beat the pawn (lose the horse after Be4) and the white is totally cornered, it can't get out from there. So, same logic as before, I like Bf5 because we still can do Re3 after their forced move. The future goal is to develop our black square bishop either in e5 or c5 (after f8) and they can't avoid the heat of the checkmate. OTOH, moving the rook directly, 28..Re3, cuts all the queen's exits, and if they do not move that horse back (wasted move!) they are going to lose it for free, or better, after Qf2 we go Bf5 and are in the same position as above. Note that now, after 28...Re3, then 29.Qc1 is not good anymore! we can push 29...b4, and they can do [B]nothing[/B] to avoid transformation (beside of giving the queen, of course). If the queen stays there, but the knight moves, we have Bg4/Bd1, a very strong attack "from the back". White is doomed, anyhow... So, what do you think? [B]Re3 [/B]or [B]Bf5[/B]? We win in either case.[/QUOTE] I would like Bf5 personally.

2013-05-24, 00:04	#6
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³·19 Posts	I like all the possible lines after 29....Re3

2013-06-01, 14:08	#7
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	they appear to have replied a3 , lets see where we go from here.