Cheating at chess how to counter it

[Xyzzy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaemons

[xilman]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Fine.

Given a finite amount of energy (let's say 1KW), how many cycles can they execute before they die?

Given a finite amount of power, say 25W, how many chess positions may be evaluated by a 1kg computer in 70 years?

I remain surprised by your apparent belief that the only way a computer can play chess is exemplified by the currently best playing systems.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by Xyzzy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaemons

It's interesting that this success back in 1978 did not spell the end for organised gambling with roulette wheels. Clearly it is still going strong and gambling houses are still making profits despite any possible cheating that occurs. Customers are not strip searched before being allowed to play as far as I know.

I suppose the quality of the roulette wheels might have been improved in response, so that predictions of the type made by the Eudaemons are no longer possible? Or otherwise did the gambling houses start insisting that all bets ceased at an earlier moment, such as before the ball was tossed onto the wheel? Neither of these solutions seems to have any analagous application in chess, unfortunately.

[Brian-E]

On the subject of incorporating a computer within the human body, this is analagous to doping in the sport world I guess. I've sometimes heard it suggested that if only such doping was not potentially hazardous to the health of the athletes, the governing sports bodies would by now have started allowing it and doping would have become the norm. Could the future of over-the-board chess involve a more physical struggle with players expending as much effort as they can powering their internal chess engines to search further than their opponents' chess engines - provided that this technology has become so non-threatening to human health that the chess governing body gives in to the inevitable and allows it?

[Xyzzy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/ar...pagewanted=all

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by chalsall

One simple solution: have all participants play naked, inside a faraday cage....

Can they make transparent Faraday cages now?
Like glass or plexy, metalized with ITO inside and outside, like the LCD/touch screens? Will that work, or need a metal cage? (I have to google that!)

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by xilman

Given a finite amount of power, say 25W, how many chess positions may be evaluated by a 1kg computer in 70 years?

The math doesn't work.

A player doesn't have 70 years to play in a championship.

And given a 1KW power supply (relatively standard small UPS which weighs about a Kg), it could (at best) supply 25 watts for 1.67 days.

Originally Posted by xilman

I remain surprised by your apparent belief that the only way a computer can play chess is exemplified by the currently best playing systems.

Perhaps there's been a breakthrough.

Can you tell us all how much a computer consuming only 25 watts would help a grand-master?

My fundamental point is no human could carry into a match a computer (and the required power supply) within their bodies which would be able to help them for long.

Any such help would require outside computing assistance -- "the cloud" -- wherein outside observations of the pieces and inward communications would be required.

Ah... Just thought of something... IR and UV light... A FC doesn't filter for that.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by chalsall

The math doesn't work.

A player doesn't have 70 years to play in a championship.

And given a 1KW power supply (relatively standard small UPS which weighs about a Kg), it could (at best) supply 25 watts for 1.67 days.



Perhaps there's been a breakthrough.

Can you tell us all how much a computer consuming only 25 watts would help a grand-master?

My fundamental point is no human could carry into a match a computer (and the required power supply) within their bodies which would be able to help them for long.

Any such help would require outside computing assistance -- "the cloud" -- wherein outside observations of the pieces and inward communications would be required.

Ah... Just thought of something... IR and UV light... A FC doesn't filter for that.

A grandmaster is a 25W computer.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by xilman

A grandmaster is a 25W computer.

Agreed.

Lithium, silicon, carbon or hydrogen?

[xilman]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Agreed.

Lithium, silicon, carbon or hydrogen?

Antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium
And hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium ...

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by xilman

Antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium
And hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium ...

It's a bit funny how we have to fight all the time....

Lithium Bromide.

Hydrogen and Ammonia (and water)...

The Einstein solution to air conditioning....