Move 11 - Page 2

henryzz · 2012-12-14, 16:33

I would much rather exchange the knight we currently have on c3 from than the one on f3.

Zeta-Flux · 2012-12-14, 23:22

I'm okay with Ne2. Just as a follow-up question. What do we do if they then decide to exchange on f3?

richs · 2012-12-15, 05:50

Then we follow our previous plan per post #8 above: 11. ... Nxf3+ 12. Bxf3 Rb8 13. c3 Nc6 14. Qd2

henryzz · 2012-12-15, 09:11

[QUOTE=richs;321720]Then we follow our previous plan per post #8 above: 11. ... Nxf3+ 12. Bxf3 Rb8 13. c3 Nc6 14. Qd2[/QUOTE]

We don't necessarily have to do c3 once the knight has moved although it would be nice to stop the bishop moving there though.
I think what zeta means is how do we plan to attack in this game.
Do we advance pawns on the kingside? Do we attack in the centre? Ne2 pretty much commits to him being able to Nxe3+ exchanging knights. This means we have less of a hold on the e5 square which we might need.
We can continue discussing where we want this game to go once we have made our move if necessary.

henryzz · 2012-12-15, 09:40

Once the exchange is done would it be worth doing c4 rather than c3 possibly followed by d4. I am of course assuming they don't do Nc6(looks silly as we expect Bb7. Ba5 is another option though.) Going home today from uni so don't have a chessboard out to check thoroughly.

richs · 2012-12-15, 14:48

With our current position I think that we are currently better aligned for a queenside pawn storm than kingside, so I think we need to reconsider the kingside/center advance.

Take a look at the game that I played with my brother back in the Move 10 folder (post #26). Most of the inital action was on the queenside.

I have an all day meeting today followed by a work Christmas party tonight, so I'll try another game with my brother tomorrow (Sunday). Not that a single game is definitive, it just gives me ideas....

Brian-E · 2012-12-15, 17:21

I still like 11.Ne2 as well. Perhaps we are nearly ready to play that move since we seem to agree? Just my thoughts answering one or two points which others have brought up:
[LIST][*]While it would be nice to keep Black from exchanging our knight on f3, I think that is something we will be unable to reasonably avoid.[*]I think c2-c3 is a good move (after Ne2 of course) even if Black moves the knight off d4 before we play it. We are blunting the effect of Black's g7 bishop on the long diagonal, we are removing Black's outpost on d4, and we are giving ourselves the real possibility of advancing d3-d4 later if we want to.[*]I think c2-c4 is a horrible move positionally, at least while the dark long diagonal is open for Black's g7 bishop. We leave a huge hole on d4 which Black will certainly exploit. ...Ne7-c6 will be a natural move to do this, and the fact that the knight blocks the bishop on b7 here is a much lesser consideration. We could find ourselves weak on the dark squares generally, not just on d4, especially if we find it necessary later to move the b pawn to free up the rook which protects it.[/LIST]

henryzz · 2012-12-15, 19:43

Ne2 is fine here. I think the discussion afterwards should continue about our future plans(probably post c3)

richs · 2012-12-16, 00:18

I vote for 11. Ne2 ....

Batalov · 2012-12-16, 00:59

I will be away for the evening, so I think you have the move, right?
(It's a solid move, too.) All four members agree!

I'd rather post it now to make this move smooth to compensate for the tenth.

henryzz · 2012-12-16, 13:30

[QUOTE=Batalov;321777]I will be away for the evening, so I think you have the move, right?
(It's a solid move, too.) All four members agree!

I'd rather post it now to make this move smooth to compensate for the tenth.[/QUOTE]

Yes I think that is fine. I will post in the thread.

2012-12-14, 23:22	#13
Zeta-Flux May 2003 7×13×17 Posts	I'm okay with Ne2. Just as a follow-up question. What do we do if they then decide to exchange on f3? Last fiddled with by Zeta-Flux on 2012-12-14 at 23:23

2012-12-15, 09:40	#16
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 6141₁₀ Posts	Once the exchange is done would it be worth doing c4 rather than c3 possibly followed by d4. I am of course assuming they don't do Nc6(looks silly as we expect Bb7. Ba5 is another option though.) Going home today from uni so don't have a chessboard out to check thoroughly. Last fiddled with by henryzz on 2012-12-15 at 16:50

2012-12-15, 17:21	#18
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 6316₈ Posts	I still like 11.Ne2 as well. Perhaps we are nearly ready to play that move since we seem to agree? Just my thoughts answering one or two points which others have brought up: [LIST][]While it would be nice to keep Black from exchanging our knight on f3, I think that is something we will be unable to reasonably avoid.[]I think c2-c3 is a good move (after Ne2 of course) even if Black moves the knight off d4 before we play it. We are blunting the effect of Black's g7 bishop on the long diagonal, we are removing Black's outpost on d4, and we are giving ourselves the real possibility of advancing d3-d4 later if we want to.[]I think c2-c4 is a horrible move positionally, at least while the dark long diagonal is open for Black's g7 bishop. We leave a huge hole on d4 which Black will certainly exploit. ...Ne7-c6 will be a natural move to do this, and the fact that the knight blocks the bishop on b7 here is a much lesser consideration. We could find ourselves weak on the dark squares generally, not just on d4, especially if we find it necessary later to move the b pawn to free up the rook which protects it.[/LIST] Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2012-12-15 at 17:26 Reason: typo corrected*

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2012-12-14, 16:33	#12
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	I would much rather exchange the knight we currently have on c3 from than the one on f3.

2012-12-15, 05:50	#14
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2·859 Posts	Then we follow our previous plan per post #8 above: 11. ... Nxf3+ 12. Bxf3 Rb8 13. c3 Nc6 14. Qd2

2012-12-15, 09:11	#15
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3×23×89 Posts	[QUOTE=richs;321720]Then we follow our previous plan per post #8 above: 11. ... Nxf3+ 12. Bxf3 Rb8 13. c3 Nc6 14. Qd2[/QUOTE] We don't necessarily have to do c3 once the knight has moved although it would be nice to stop the bishop moving there though. I think what zeta means is how do we plan to attack in this game. Do we advance pawns on the kingside? Do we attack in the centre? Ne2 pretty much commits to him being able to Nxe3+ exchanging knights. This means we have less of a hold on the e5 square which we might need. We can continue discussing where we want this game to go once we have made our move if necessary.

2012-12-15, 14:48	#17
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2·859 Posts	With our current position I think that we are currently better aligned for a queenside pawn storm than kingside, so I think we need to reconsider the kingside/center advance. Take a look at the game that I played with my brother back in the Move 10 folder (post #26). Most of the inital action was on the queenside. I have an all day meeting today followed by a work Christmas party tonight, so I'll try another game with my brother tomorrow (Sunday). Not that a single game is definitive, it just gives me ideas....

2012-12-15, 19:43	#19
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	Ne2 is fine here. I think the discussion afterwards should continue about our future plans(probably post c3)

2012-12-16, 00:18	#20
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 3266₈ Posts	I vote for 11. Ne2 ....

2012-12-16, 00:59	#21
Batalov "Serge" Mar 2008 San Diego, Calif. 3²×7×163 Posts	I will be away for the evening, so I think you have the move, right? (It's a solid move, too.) All four members agree! I'd rather post it now to make this move smooth to compensate for the tenth.

2012-12-16, 13:30	#22
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	[QUOTE=Batalov;321777]I will be away for the evening, so I think you have the move, right? (It's a solid move, too.) All four members agree! I'd rather post it now to make this move smooth to compensate for the tenth.[/QUOTE] Yes I think that is fine. I will post in the thread.