Black's ∞-th move

LaurV · 2012-11-21, 11:51

In anticipation of their move and in anticipation of Dubslow changing the title :razz: (yes, the "laying down eight", ∞, is mine hehe):

Thinking more about this, the "8. O-O" seems to me a "too passive move". White may have better active moves like Be3, Qd2, pushing some pawns, anyhow he can do 0-0 at any time later.

We should think how do we respond to such. Use adversary's time. Or wait for their move first?

Dubslow · 2012-11-21, 13:20

Hey, I didn't do the last change, and there's also one old change I didn't make. :razz: (The rest are mine. :smile:)
Edit: I just noticed some other changes that I certainly did not make. (Why would I ruin my own art? :razz:)

(I'll think of something chess related at some point.)

science_man_88 · 2012-11-22, 00:46

time for the eighth move.

Raman · 2012-11-22, 13:13

8. Be3... the following move is being

The core black's reply moves are being
[B]8...Nd4[/B], [B]8...0-0[/B]

But you can try out with the other moves, as well!

For this example, consider this thing with these following moves itself!
[I]8...Qb6[/I], [I]8...Qa5[/I], even 8...f5, 8...h6,
[I]8...d5[/I] [U]8...Qc7[/U], [U]8...Bd7[/U], 8...Rb8, [U]8...Bd4[/U], ... etc., ... ,
[COLOR=White][STRIKE]even into going ahead spoiling all at once with these 8...f6, 8...h5, following moves itself![/STRIKE][/COLOR]

science_man_88 · 2012-11-22, 22:35

[QUOTE=Raman;319322]8. Be3... the following move is being

The core black's reply moves are being
[B]8...Nd4[/B], [B]8...0-0[/B]

But you can try out with the other moves, as well!

For this example, consider this thing with these following moves itself!
[I]8...Qb6[/I], [I]8...Qa5[/I], even 8...f5, 8...h6,
[I]8...d5[/I] [U]8...Qc7[/U], [U]8...Bd7[/U], 8...Rb8, [U]8...Bd4[/U], ... etc., ... ,
[COLOR=White][STRIKE]even into going ahead spoiling all at once with these 8...f6, 8...h5, following moves itself![/STRIKE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

in this case it appears that both central pawns look like safe bets to me because both go to central positions (both under attack by 2 pieces, both have 3 possible defenders right now though,d5 has (Qxd5,Nxd5,and exd5) upon capture of our pawn, e5 has (Nxe5,dxe5,Bxe5) upon the capture of our pawn). but I'm still open to discussion/undecided. edit: found one that has 3 defenders but only one foreseen attacker at present if anyone cares.

Raman · 2012-11-24, 16:17

Please go away with the process of elimination itself, for selecting into the following move with choice itself!

I 8...0-0 A move from the book
II 8...Nd4 A move from the book
III 8...Qb6 Develops the queen, threatens white's pawn at b2
IV 8...d5 Is good enough to be moved
V 8...Qa5 Pins white's knight at c3
VI 8...Bd7 Develops the bishop, frees way for a queenside castle, but leaves the black's pawn at b6 without protection, probably it is not the first choice, probably it may be aimless
VII 8...h6 Prevents intrusion on g5 square
VIII 8...Qc7 Moves the queen, frees way for a queenside castle, is okay probably
IX 8...f5 Prevents white's advance on f5, is not bad
X 8...a6 Prevents intrusion on b5 square, but probably weakens b6 square
XI 8...b6 Preparing for a bishop fianchetto, leaves b5 square out of protection temporarily
XII 8...Bd4 Is not wrong
XIII 8...e5 Weakens d5 square, but frees the black's bishop at c8
XIV 8...b5 Probably not the first choice
XV 8...Bxc3+ Probably leaves the b-file to be open to the white's attacks
XVI 8...Na5 Probably knight will be kicked back
XVII 8...f6 Probably not the first choice
XVIII 8...Bh6 Probably bad development - piece moves again
XIX 8...Qd7 Blocks black's bishop at c8 square, probably is not the first choice move
XX 8...Bf6 Probably bad development - piece moves again; leaves the h6 square to be open to white's intrusion & attack
XXI 8...Rb8 Aimless
XXII 8...h5 Aimless
XXIII 8...a5 Aimless, weakens both the squares b6, b5 together
XXIV 8...Nb4 Probably aimless, knight will be kicked back, wasting tempo
XXV 8...Rf8 Forfeits the right to castle, is aimless
XXVI 8...Rg8 Forfeits the right to castle, is aimless
XXVII 8...Kf8 Forfeits the right to castle, is aimless
XXVIII 8...Ng8 Piece moving back, forfeits the right to castle, suggest elimination
XXIX 8...Nb8 Piece moving back, forfeits the right to castle, suggest elimination
XXX 8...Bf8 Piece moving back, forfeits the right to castle, suggest elimination
XXXI 8...Kd7 Blocks black's bishop at c8 square, trapping black's king in the center leaving it vulnerable to the white's attacks, suggest elimination
XXXII 8...c4 Loses material: pawn, but can eventually lead to a tripled pawn structure for white, into the c-file itself, probably is eliminated
XXXIII 8...g5 Loses material: pawn, weakens the black's king side, putting it to be vulnerable to the white's attacks itself, probably is eliminated
XXXIV 8...Nf5 Hangs the black's knight, is eliminated
XXXV 8...Nd5 Hangs the black's knight, is eliminated
XXXVI 8...Ne5 Hangs the black's knight, is eliminated
XXXVII 8...Be5 Hangs the black's bishop, is eliminated

LaurV · 2012-11-25, 08:46

My hierarchy: (kept your numbers, but sorted according with my preference):

[U][I]II 8...Nd4 A move from the book[/I][/U] (best move, most active)
[I]I 8...0-0 A move from the book[/I] (good move, but not so active as II)
[I]III 8...Qb6 Develops the queen, threatens white's pawn at b2
V 8...Qa5 Pins white's knight at c3[/I]
(these are both good moves, I think. BTW, your [I][strike]IV 8 ...d5[/strike][/I] is terrible bad move! after he takes 9.Bxc5 we lose not only the sente, initiative, and a pawn which we can't take back anymore, but all the center is his then).

[I]VI 8...Bd7 Develops the bishop, frees way for a queenside castle, but leaves the black's pawn at b6 without protection, probably it is not the first choice, probably it may be aimless
[/I] This is an interesting one, but need more study, and we give him the sente. It seems a passive move to me.

[I]XXI 8...Rb8 Aimless
XXII 8...h5 Aimless[/I] [I]
XXIII 8...a5 Aimless, weakens both the squares b6, b5 together[/I]
These are not aimless, they all seem good moves to me.

For the rest, they are bad moves.
This position need more study. How much time do we still have? If I run out of time, you can consider Nd4 as being my move. We still have time to castle later.

Raman · 2012-11-27, 17:03

[COLOR=SeaGreen][B]Dubslow[/B][/COLOR], [COLOR=RoyalBlue][B]science_man_88[/B][/COLOR], what are your own opinions being?

Raman · 2012-11-27, 19:34

Being the case you had totally lost the interest itself?!

Dubslow · 2012-11-28, 08:29

Right, sorry. I have an exam in 8.5 hours and (mostly unfinished) homework due in 9.5 :/

Nd4 is nice and aggressive without starting anything; I agree that O-O is just begging for them to start something and leave us in the dust. Moving the queen seems more-or-less aimless for now (8...Qa5 9 Qd2, though Qb6 would support that c pawn); there's not much we can do to develop the c bishop; pushing c or d pawns is a Bad Idea; pushing e is also bad, because we need to leave that d pawn in place (so it's not really a useable defender). f5 is reasonable, though f leaves the left side open (making castling less useful); f6 is also reasonable, though also rather aimless IMO.

All in all I vote for Nd4.

science_man_88 · 2012-11-30, 20:50

[QUOTE=Raman;319764]Being the case you had totally lost the interest itself?![/QUOTE]

no my main computer went out. and I didn't think about it since using this other one.

as to losing interest, I will think in my head next time sorry for the annoyance you seem to have with me thinking.

2012-11-21, 11:51	#1
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	Black's ∞-th move In anticipation of their move and in anticipation of Dubslow changing the title :razz: (yes, the "laying down eight", ∞, is mine hehe): Thinking more about this, the "8. O-O" seems to me a "too passive move". White may have better active moves like Be3, Qd2, pushing some pawns, anyhow he can do 0-0 at any time later. We should think how do we respond to such. Use adversary's time. Or wait for their move first?

2012-11-21, 13:20	#2
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 1110000110101₂ Posts	Hey, I didn't do the last change, and there's also one old change I didn't make. :razz: (The rest are mine. :smile:) Edit: I just noticed some other changes that I certainly did not make. (Why would I ruin my own art? :razz:) (I'll think of something chess related at some point.) Last fiddled with by Dubslow on 2012-11-21 at 13:21

2012-11-22, 22:35	#5
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 10000100001101₂ Posts	[QUOTE=Raman;319322]8. Be3... the following move is being The core black's reply moves are being [B]8...Nd4[/B], [B]8...0-0[/B] But you can try out with the other moves, as well! For this example, consider this thing with these following moves itself! [I]8...Qb6[/I], [I]8...Qa5[/I], even 8...f5, 8...h6, [I]8...d5[/I] [U]8...Qc7[/U], [U]8...Bd7[/U], 8...Rb8, [U]8...Bd4[/U], ... etc., ... , [COLOR=White][STRIKE]even into going ahead spoiling all at once with these 8...f6, 8...h5, following moves itself![/STRIKE][/COLOR][/QUOTE] in this case it appears that both central pawns look like safe bets to me because both go to central positions (both under attack by 2 pieces, both have 3 possible defenders right now though,d5 has (Qxd5,Nxd5,and exd5) upon capture of our pawn, e5 has (Nxe5,dxe5,Bxe5) upon the capture of our pawn). but I'm still open to discussion/undecided. edit: found one that has 3 defenders but only one foreseen attacker at present if anyone cares. Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2012-11-22 at 22:38

2012-11-25, 08:46	#7
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41·251 Posts	My hierarchy: (kept your numbers, but sorted according with my preference): [U][I]II 8...Nd4 A move from the book[/I][/U] (best move, most active) [I]I 8...0-0 A move from the book[/I] (good move, but not so active as II) [I]III 8...Qb6 Develops the queen, threatens white's pawn at b2 V 8...Qa5 Pins white's knight at c3[/I] (these are both good moves, I think. BTW, your [I][strike]IV 8 ...d5[/strike][/I] is terrible bad move! after he takes 9.Bxc5 we lose not only the sente, initiative, and a pawn which we can't take back anymore, but all the center is his then). [I]VI 8...Bd7 Develops the bishop, frees way for a queenside castle, but leaves the black's pawn at b6 without protection, probably it is not the first choice, probably it may be aimless [/I] This is an interesting one, but need more study, and we give him the sente. It seems a passive move to me. [I]XXI 8...Rb8 Aimless XXII 8...h5 Aimless[/I] [I] XXIII 8...a5 Aimless, weakens both the squares b6, b5 together[/I] These are not aimless, they all seem good moves to me. For the rest, they are bad moves. This position need more study. How much time do we still have? If I run out of time, you can consider Nd4 as being my move. We still have time to castle later. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2012-11-25 at 08:50

2012-11-27, 17:03	#8
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 10011101001₂ Posts	[COLOR=SeaGreen][B]Dubslow[/B][/COLOR], [COLOR=RoyalBlue][B]science_man_88[/B][/COLOR], what are your own opinions being? Last fiddled with by Raman on 2012-11-27 at 17:04

2012-11-22, 00:46	#3
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 10000100001101₂ Posts	time for the eighth move.

2012-11-22, 13:13	#4
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3×419 Posts	8. Be3... the following move is being The core black's reply moves are being [B]8...Nd4[/B], [B]8...0-0[/B] But you can try out with the other moves, as well! For this example, consider this thing with these following moves itself! [I]8...Qb6[/I], [I]8...Qa5[/I], even 8...f5, 8...h6, [I]8...d5[/I] [U]8...Qc7[/U], [U]8...Bd7[/U], 8...Rb8, [U]8...Bd4[/U], ... etc., ... , [COLOR=White][STRIKE]even into going ahead spoiling all at once with these 8...f6, 8...h5, following moves itself![/STRIKE][/COLOR]

2012-11-24, 16:17	#6
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 2351₈ Posts	Please go away with the process of elimination itself, for selecting into the following move with choice itself! I 8...0-0 A move from the book II 8...Nd4 A move from the book III 8...Qb6 Develops the queen, threatens white's pawn at b2 IV 8...d5 Is good enough to be moved V 8...Qa5 Pins white's knight at c3 VI 8...Bd7 Develops the bishop, frees way for a queenside castle, but leaves the black's pawn at b6 without protection, probably it is not the first choice, probably it may be aimless VII 8...h6 Prevents intrusion on g5 square VIII 8...Qc7 Moves the queen, frees way for a queenside castle, is okay probably IX 8...f5 Prevents white's advance on f5, is not bad X 8...a6 Prevents intrusion on b5 square, but probably weakens b6 square XI 8...b6 Preparing for a bishop fianchetto, leaves b5 square out of protection temporarily XII 8...Bd4 Is not wrong XIII 8...e5 Weakens d5 square, but frees the black's bishop at c8 XIV 8...b5 Probably not the first choice XV 8...Bxc3+ Probably leaves the b-file to be open to the white's attacks XVI 8...Na5 Probably knight will be kicked back XVII 8...f6 Probably not the first choice XVIII 8...Bh6 Probably bad development - piece moves again XIX 8...Qd7 Blocks black's bishop at c8 square, probably is not the first choice move XX 8...Bf6 Probably bad development - piece moves again; leaves the h6 square to be open to white's intrusion & attack XXI 8...Rb8 Aimless XXII 8...h5 Aimless XXIII 8...a5 Aimless, weakens both the squares b6, b5 together XXIV 8...Nb4 Probably aimless, knight will be kicked back, wasting tempo XXV 8...Rf8 Forfeits the right to castle, is aimless XXVI 8...Rg8 Forfeits the right to castle, is aimless XXVII 8...Kf8 Forfeits the right to castle, is aimless XXVIII 8...Ng8 Piece moving back, forfeits the right to castle, suggest elimination XXIX 8...Nb8 Piece moving back, forfeits the right to castle, suggest elimination XXX 8...Bf8 Piece moving back, forfeits the right to castle, suggest elimination XXXI 8...Kd7 Blocks black's bishop at c8 square, trapping black's king in the center leaving it vulnerable to the white's attacks, suggest elimination XXXII 8...c4 Loses material: pawn, but can eventually lead to a tripled pawn structure for white, into the c-file itself, probably is eliminated XXXIII 8...g5 Loses material: pawn, weakens the black's king side, putting it to be vulnerable to the white's attacks itself, probably is eliminated XXXIV 8...Nf5 Hangs the black's knight, is eliminated XXXV 8...Nd5 Hangs the black's knight, is eliminated XXXVI 8...Ne5 Hangs the black's knight, is eliminated XXXVII 8...Be5 Hangs the black's bishop, is eliminated

2012-11-27, 19:34	#9
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3×419 Posts	Being the case you had totally lost the interest itself?!

2012-11-28, 08:29	#10
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3×29×83 Posts	Right, sorry. I have an exam in 8.5 hours and (mostly unfinished) homework due in 9.5 :/ Nd4 is nice and aggressive without starting anything; I agree that O-O is just begging for them to start something and leave us in the dust. Moving the queen seems more-or-less aimless for now (8...Qa5 9 Qd2, though Qb6 would support that c pawn); there's not much we can do to develop the c bishop; pushing c or d pawns is a Bad Idea; pushing e is also bad, because we need to leave that d pawn in place (so it's not really a useable defender). f5 is reasonable, though f leaves the left side open (making castling less useful); f6 is also reasonable, though also rather aimless IMO. All in all I vote for Nd4.

2012-11-30, 20:50	#11
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=Raman;319764]Being the case you had totally lost the interest itself?![/QUOTE] no my main computer went out. and I didn't think about it since using this other one. as to losing interest, I will think in my head next time sorry for the annoyance you seem to have with me thinking.

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