Move 5

henryzz · 2012-10-27, 18:16

The pirates have made their move Bg7. I suggest we do d3. Then on the next move we can decide between Be3 and f4.

Any thoughts anyone?

Zeta-Flux · 2012-10-27, 20:16

I really like f4 at this point. It claims a lot of territory and threatens the push e5, which blocks their bishop in the back.

The d3 push seems like a weak response. All it seems to accomplish is it opens up the bishop on a weak line and defends the e4 pawn (which want to push later anyway). By waiting to push d3, we might later decide to fianchetto our own bishop on b2 (or push d4 if it is advantageous).

Brian-E · 2012-10-27, 21:12

In my opinion both 5.d3 and 5.f4 are good moves. I think it's very likely that we will want to play both anyway. The possibility of fianchettoing the queen's bishop, mentioned by Zeta-Flux as an objection to the move 5.d3 which would rule the idea out, seems very unpromising to me in this type of position, especially if Black still has the prospect of shutting the bishop on b2 out by playing ...d6 and ...e5, which is a set-up Black may very well adopt anyway even if our bishop develops more conventionally on e3. The c1-h6 diagonal for the bishop seems natural and strong, intending in many lines to put the queen on d2 or c1 and threatening to follow up with Bh6 later at a moment when our f-pawn is not obstructing this on f4.

henryzz · 2012-10-27, 21:58

In this variation of the sicillian, the usual aim at this point seems to be to create a strong centre and attack on the king side. Doing this we risk some pawn attacks on the queen side. d3 stops c4 and allows the c1 bishop to attack on the king side. If you haven't already look at the video I posted on the last move thread, it give some examples of what can happen from these positions. 90% of games in this position have d3 as the next move. Chessmaster doesn't even have another move for this position in it's opening book.

Brian-E · 2012-10-28, 09:56

Well yes, David, and the fact that "everyone" plays 5.d3 here is the decisive factor for me. When I started playing correspondence chess in 1981, games which turned into a battle of whose opening theory books were more up to date, who had purchased the latest "Informator", even (rather rare for my level but it [I]did[/I] occur sometimes) who had discovered an error in some opening analysis in one of the dozens of openings books which Batsford churned out ad nauseam and won the game due to the opponent blindly following that book, all these types of games bored me to tears. Nowadays it will be a question of trawling the internet for the latest moves played by other people in the main lines, and that comes to the same thing except that it's an even more trivial exercise. I just don't get the feeling that we are playing chess if it comes to this.

My vote is for 5.f4. Let's make them think.

henryzz · 2012-10-30, 10:14

richs hasn't been on since the 27th

Brian-E · 2012-10-30, 16:15

[QUOTE=henryzz;316409]richs hasn't been on since the 27th[/QUOTE]
How long we should wait is a difficult decision, isn't it?
We're still well within the maximum thinking time of a week, but our opponents get understandably frustrated if we keep taking our time when the game is still in the opening. Also, if it turns out that we get a two-versus-two split in opinion about which move to make, we can then unexpectedly require more discussion time.
Maybe wait another 24 hours for richs? Or 48 hours?

henryzz · 2012-10-30, 16:42

[QUOTE=Brian-E;316426]How long we should wait is a difficult decision, isn't it?
We're still well within the maximum thinking time of a week, but our opponents get understandably frustrated if we keep taking our time when the game is still in the opening. Also, if it turns out that we get a two-versus-two split in opinion about which move to make, we can then unexpectedly require more discussion time.
Maybe wait another 24 hours for richs? Or 48 hours?[/QUOTE]

Let's wait 24 hours. I think we need to make a rule for if 3 people have voted and the other hasn't come one.

richs · 2012-10-31, 13:34

Sorry guys, real life has interfered with me again but here's my two cents.

I agree with Brian about going outside the box to go with f4. Let's see where they go with that!

Rich

henryzz · 2012-10-31, 13:39

Ok f4 it is. I will pm Batalov.
Just expect me to likely vote for d3 on our next move :smile:

Brian-E · 2012-10-31, 15:31

[QUOTE=henryzz;316520]Just expect me to likely vote for d3 on our next move :smile:[/QUOTE]
I shall expect you to vote for d3 for as long as that move is legal.:smile:

2012-10-27, 18:16	#1
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 6141₁₀ Posts	Move 5 The pirates have made their move Bg7. I suggest we do d3. Then on the next move we can decide between Be3 and f4. Any thoughts anyone?

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2012-10-27, 20:16	#2
Zeta-Flux May 2003 7·13·17 Posts	I really like f4 at this point. It claims a lot of territory and threatens the push e5, which blocks their bishop in the back. The d3 push seems like a weak response. All it seems to accomplish is it opens up the bishop on a weak line and defends the e4 pawn (which want to push later anyway). By waiting to push d3, we might later decide to fianchetto our own bishop on b2 (or push d4 if it is advantageous).

2012-10-27, 21:12	#3
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	In my opinion both 5.d3 and 5.f4 are good moves. I think it's very likely that we will want to play both anyway. The possibility of fianchettoing the queen's bishop, mentioned by Zeta-Flux as an objection to the move 5.d3 which would rule the idea out, seems very unpromising to me in this type of position, especially if Black still has the prospect of shutting the bishop on b2 out by playing ...d6 and ...e5, which is a set-up Black may very well adopt anyway even if our bishop develops more conventionally on e3. The c1-h6 diagonal for the bishop seems natural and strong, intending in many lines to put the queen on d2 or c1 and threatening to follow up with Bh6 later at a moment when our f-pawn is not obstructing this on f4.

2012-10-27, 21:58	#4
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	In this variation of the sicillian, the usual aim at this point seems to be to create a strong centre and attack on the king side. Doing this we risk some pawn attacks on the queen side. d3 stops c4 and allows the c1 bishop to attack on the king side. If you haven't already look at the video I posted on the last move thread, it give some examples of what can happen from these positions. 90% of games in this position have d3 as the next move. Chessmaster doesn't even have another move for this position in it's opening book.

2012-10-28, 09:56	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	Well yes, David, and the fact that "everyone" plays 5.d3 here is the decisive factor for me. When I started playing correspondence chess in 1981, games which turned into a battle of whose opening theory books were more up to date, who had purchased the latest "Informator", even (rather rare for my level but it [I]did[/I] occur sometimes) who had discovered an error in some opening analysis in one of the dozens of openings books which Batsford churned out ad nauseam and won the game due to the opponent blindly following that book, all these types of games bored me to tears. Nowadays it will be a question of trawling the internet for the latest moves played by other people in the main lines, and that comes to the same thing except that it's an even more trivial exercise. I just don't get the feeling that we are playing chess if it comes to this. My vote is for 5.f4. Let's make them think.

2012-10-30, 10:14	#6
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 17FD₁₆ Posts	richs hasn't been on since the 27th

2012-10-30, 16:15	#7
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;316409]richs hasn't been on since the 27th[/QUOTE] How long we should wait is a difficult decision, isn't it? We're still well within the maximum thinking time of a week, but our opponents get understandably frustrated if we keep taking our time when the game is still in the opening. Also, if it turns out that we get a two-versus-two split in opinion about which move to make, we can then unexpectedly require more discussion time. Maybe wait another 24 hours for richs? Or 48 hours?

2012-10-30, 16:42	#8
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;316426]How long we should wait is a difficult decision, isn't it? We're still well within the maximum thinking time of a week, but our opponents get understandably frustrated if we keep taking our time when the game is still in the opening. Also, if it turns out that we get a two-versus-two split in opinion about which move to make, we can then unexpectedly require more discussion time. Maybe wait another 24 hours for richs? Or 48 hours?[/QUOTE] Let's wait 24 hours. I think we need to make a rule for if 3 people have voted and the other hasn't come one.

2012-10-31, 13:34	#9
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 6B6₁₆ Posts	Sorry guys, real life has interfered with me again but here's my two cents. I agree with Brian about going outside the box to go with f4. Let's see where they go with that! Rich

2012-10-31, 13:39	#10
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3×23×89 Posts	Ok f4 it is. I will pm Batalov. Just expect me to likely vote for d3 on our next move :smile:

2012-10-31, 15:31	#11
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;316520]Just expect me to likely vote for d3 on our next move :smile:[/QUOTE] I shall expect you to vote for d3 for as long as that move is legal.:smile: