What to do about the false-start rule? (Athletics)

Flatlander · 2011-08-28, 15:22

With Dwain Chambers and Usain Bolt both being disqualified at the World Athletics Championships, is there a better way of dealing with false starts?

Current rule:

Quote:

An athlete, after assuming a full and final set position, shall not commence his start until after receiving the report of the gun. If, in the judgement of the starter or recallers, he does so any earlier, it shall be deemed a false start. Except in combined events, any athlete responsible for a false start shall be disqualified

Suggestion:

Quote:

1 false start = kicks to the shins
2 false starts = shoelaces tied together
3 false starts = you're out

science_man_88 · 2011-08-28, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flatlander

With Dwain Chambers and Usain Bolt both being disqualified at the World Athletics Championships, is there a better way of dealing with false starts?

Current rule:

Suggestion:

make a fence in front that only comes down if the gun is fired ?

Brian-E · 2011-08-28, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by science_man_88

make a fence in front that only comes down if the gun is fired ?

LOL. Why not have someone standing behind each athlete too to give them a swift prod in the midriff when the gun goes off like the jockeys do to the horses with their feet.

Seriously though, the new no-tolerance rule for false starts (immediate disqualification after only one) seems harsh to me. I read that it was put in place because some cheats were deliberately false starting in order to upset the opposition psychologically. But when hundredths of a second count and the athletes are on tenterhooks ready to start, I can imagine they might respond to the moment when they think the gun will sound rather than the moment when they actually hear it.

science_man_88 · 2011-08-28, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian-E

LOL. Why not have someone standing behind each athlete too to give them a swift prod in the midriff when the gun goes off like the jockeys do to the horses with their feet.

Seriously though, the new no-tolerance rule for false starts (immediate disqualification after only one) seems harsh to me. I read that it was put in place because some cheats were deliberately false starting in order to upset the opposition psychologically. But when hundredths of a second count and the athletes are on tenterhooks ready to start, I can imagine they might respond to the moment when they think the gun will sound rather than the moment when they actually hear it.

my point is if they tried to false start or did they'd trip no need for the disqualification anymore they will learn quickly.

Xyzzy · 2011-08-28, 19:17

In BMX racing, the start is everything. We use a gate that drops forward that is triggered by a random cadence signal within a 10 second (or so) window.

It works well. If you start too early you topple over and usually take a few others out. Peer pressure is effective here.

That said, why couldn't they run individually? Less than 10 seconds they are not saying to themselves, "Wow! I really need to catch up to that guy!"

Make it a time trial. Less exciting? Yes. How do you deal with differing wind speeds? Dunno.

FIX IT!

Christenson · 2011-08-29, 02:55

Why not:
False start = disqualify, this event, first time
False start = disqualify this meet second time

That would make the guys very careful indeed. If you wanted to be more lenient, your clock for the race runs while you are out of the starting block if the starter holds, and you pay 1 second + 10x your lead of the gun if the starter fires, assessed after the race. Assessment is by high speed video and microphones at the starting line.

As for other sports, in drag racing, the lights count down in very precise cadence...so everyone knows EXACTLY when the "gun" goes off. How would a fair footrace start if one of the sprinters was deaf? The deaf guy can't hear the starter's gun, so he has to see it...30 or more milliseconds early...though it may take his visual system 80ms to process it.

Also, I'd like to point out that the "report of the starter's gun" travels at 1 foot per millisecond, more or less, so a sprinter closer to the gun has an advantage over the one furthest from the gun. And if the report happens to couple significantly to the nearby aluminum bleachers, that will leave part of the report propagating at around 10 feet per millisecond.

Uncwilly · 2011-08-29, 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christenson

Also, I'd like to point out that the "report of the starter's gun" travels at 1 foot per millisecond, more or less, so a sprinter closer to the gun has an advantage over the one furthest from the gun. And if the report happens to couple significantly to the nearby aluminum bleachers, that will leave part of the report propagating at around 10 feet per millisecond.

Please note that at all major meets the 'gun' is electronically linked to the clock and speakers (right side of image) broadcast it to each runner at the same moment.

ewmayer · 2011-08-29, 21:05

Do it like in horse-racing: Have the runners in a (human-scale) paddock. In practice, a simple shin-level starting bar for each runner tied to the starting pistol would suffice. You go early, you skin your shins and fall on your face. More realistically, some kind of breakaway bar would not injure you but would slow you enough that you have no chance of winning. Problem solved.

cheesehead · 2011-08-29, 23:37

Just go back to the previous rule (as I understand it): First false start is charged to the entire field, regardless of who committed it (a warning to the entire field). Thereafter, any false start = DQ the false-starting individual.

davieddy · 2011-08-30, 02:29

In sailing, you are given warning of the start time.
The Blue Peter means five minutes to go.
A reliable stopwatch is necessary equipment (lifejacket used to
be optional).
A good start is often crucial, but if you are "over" the line at the
the start, you have to go back and start again.

In rowing (an eight say) a good start involves all 8 starting
simultaneously. One bloke "jumping the gun" would end up
in "catching a crab" at best.

Nauta Natat
(Elementary Eating)

2011-08-29, 21:05	#8
ewmayer ∂²ω=0 Sep 2002 República de California 2²·2,939 Posts	Do it like in horse-racing: Have the runners in a (human-scale) paddock. In practice, a simple shin-level starting bar for each runner tied to the starting pistol would suffice. You go early, you skin your shins and fall on your face. More realistically, some kind of breakaway bar would not injure you but would slow you enough that you have no chance of winning. Problem solved. Last fiddled with by ewmayer on 2011-08-29 at 21:05

2011-08-29, 23:37	#9
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 2²×3×641 Posts	Just go back to the previous rule (as I understand it): First false start is charged to the entire field, regardless of who committed it (a warning to the entire field). Thereafter, any false start = DQ the false-starting individual. Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2011-08-29 at 23:48

2011-08-30, 02:29	#10
davieddy "Lucan" Dec 2006 England 2×3×13×83 Posts	Watersports In sailing, you are given warning of the start time. The Blue Peter means five minutes to go. A reliable stopwatch is necessary equipment (lifejacket used to be optional). A good start is often crucial, but if you are "over" the line at the the start, you have to go back and start again. In rowing (an eight say) a good start involves all 8 starting simultaneously. One bloke "jumping the gun" would end up in "catching a crab" at best. Nauta Natat (Elementary Eating) Last fiddled with by davieddy on 2011-08-30 at 02:31

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2011-08-28, 19:17	#5
Xyzzy Aug 2002 2×3²×13×37 Posts	In BMX racing, the start is everything. We use a gate that drops forward that is triggered by a random cadence signal within a 10 second (or so) window. It works well. If you start too early you topple over and usually take a few others out. Peer pressure is effective here. That said, why couldn't they run individually? Less than 10 seconds they are not saying to themselves, "Wow! I really need to catch up to that guy!" Make it a time trial. Less exciting? Yes. How do you deal with differing wind speeds? Dunno. FIX IT!

2011-08-29, 02:55	#6
Christenson Dec 2010 Monticello 703₁₆ Posts	Why not: False start = disqualify, this event, first time False start = disqualify this meet second time That would make the guys very careful indeed. If you wanted to be more lenient, your clock for the race runs while you are out of the starting block if the starter holds, and you pay 1 second + 10x your lead of the gun if the starter fires, assessed after the race. Assessment is by high speed video and microphones at the starting line. As for other sports, in drag racing, the lights count down in very precise cadence...so everyone knows EXACTLY when the "gun" goes off. How would a fair footrace start if one of the sprinters was deaf? The deaf guy can't hear the starter's gun, so he has to see it...30 or more milliseconds early...though it may take his visual system 80ms to process it. Also, I'd like to point out that the "report of the starter's gun" travels at 1 foot per millisecond, more or less, so a sprinter closer to the gun has an advantage over the one furthest from the gun. And if the report happens to couple significantly to the nearby aluminum bleachers, that will leave part of the report propagating at around 10 feet per millisecond.