New milestone

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by Historian

Theoretically, an exponent could be worked on for less than a second every 59 days on a slow computer. That comes out to about 1 iteration every 2 months, and the 60 day update limit will still be satisfied.

It'll take a year just to complete 6 iterations, and more than three million years to finally complete a 6 million digit candidate.

In other words,

your argument is so weak that you have to make ridiculous exaggerations to try to justify it.

Couldn't prove your point with actual data, could you?

However, if that one exponent holding up the double checking milestone is somehow still there after a few years,

That has never happened in the history of GIMPS.

Again: couldn't prove your point with actual data, could you?

All you're trying to do is justify your barging in on someone else's assignment because you're so egotistical that you think you know better than the GIMPS/PrimeNet administrators, and you just can't stand to follow their rules, like others do.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by Historian

I know this message wasn't directed at me, but I'll go ahead and respond.

What a parallel (to your proposal that even though you know that a certain PrimeNet assignment isn't assigned to you, you'll go ahead and poach the assignment)!

Consistent, it is.

Not necessarily. You're assuming that the fast system is always busy,

No, your assumption about my assumption is wrong. I was _not_ assuming that the fast system is always busy.

However, I was making a different assumption that I now see isn't necessarily correct, either:

I was assuming that the fast system would be used on a legitimate GIMPS assignment if it were not used to poach.

I neglected to consider that someone like you wouldn't care to contribute to GIMPS if he weren't poaching -- he wouldn't be interested in running legitimate GIMPS assignments.

I suppose I should thank you for cluing me in to your thinking.

Let's say that I have a fast system that I usually use to play games. One day, I see the GIMPS milestone page and decide to poach an exponent. Instead of playing a computer game that day, I decide to leave it on until the exponent finishes and do something else less CPU-intensive, like surfing the web.

Now what happens if I didn't poach that exponent?

You could've signed up for a legitimate GIMPS assignment!

No real difference in your system's use from what you propose (running a GIMPS assignment that you poached). Either way, you're accomplishing a GIMPS assignment ...

except

... except that running a legitimate GIMPS assignment wouldn't have that thrill of poaching, the thrill of knowing that you were demonstrating your superior judgment -- superior to the dum-dum "holding up a milestone" with his oh-so-slow system, the thrill of punishing the guy who had the temerity to "hold up" a milestone you considered urgent.

No benefit to GIMPS or any other DC project;

Yes, that's very illuminating:

You'd rather make the negative contribution of the things-wrong about poaching than make a positive contribution.

If you can't poach at GIMPS, you'd rather do nothing at all at GIMPS.

You've certainly made your motivation clear, "Historian".

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by Historian

Not always. Many of those "slow" systems cannot participate on higher exponents due to factors such as a lack of memory or a lack of stability for multi-year periods.

Yes, always. 1001 kph is faster than 1000 kph -- always.

You're trying to argue that just because a slow system might not be contributing in some ways, that means it can't contribute at all.

Either you're deceptive (deliberately omitting to mention certain ways a slow system can contribute) ... or you're so egotistical you think there can't be any way for a slow system to contribute other than what you've thought of.

Even worse,

Of course the "even worse" -- you can't justify your argument without conjuring up all kinds of extreme cases.

Again: couldn't prove your point with actual data, could you?

they may be unattended and forgotten, and the original searcher of the exponent that got poached won't even know or care what happened.

... and then the normal procedures we already have in place will rectify the situation.

True, but patience has a limit.

... and you just can't bear to refrain from interfering when your own particular standards of patience are exceeded, can you? Instead, you could ask the system administrators to make a judgment call about intervening to override the normal time limits -- but that wouldn't satisfy your ego either, would it?

You must intervene directly because you know that your judgment is superior to everyone else's.

Waiting a few weeks, months, or even years is fine in certain cases,

... which you will select based on your criteria, not the standard GIMPS/PrimeNet criteria

but you'll have a hard time finding anyone who's willing to wait a couple of centuries.

... because, once again, you can't make your case using real data or realistic typical situations -- you have to use exaggerations to justify your superior judgment.

(Say, are you the same egotistical guy who was making similar arguments to these, here at mersenneforum.org a few months ago, only under a different nym? I should go back and compare sentence structure, punctuation, word choice, typical mistakes, posting rhythm ... to see how parallel your posts are to his.)

In an extreme case, how would you feel about waiting for the sun to burn up?

Exaggeration all the way, isn't it?

You can't justify your proposals on the basis of real data or realistic hypothetical situations, can you?

[jinydu]

Originally Posted by jinydu

The DC for M20742307 was poached, and then completed on April 17. Don't you mean something else?

Silly me, Mini-Geek already mentioned that 20425091 is the last exponent standing in the same post.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by mdettweiler

I thought my "Or am I missing something here" clarified my intended meaning adequately, but it seems not.

It should've, but poaching is one of my hot-button topics.

I apologize for my hot-buttoned hot-headedness in your case.

[lfm]

Originally Posted by Historian

True, but patience has a limit. Waiting a few weeks, months, or even years is fine in certain cases, but you'll have a hard time finding anyone who's willing to wait a couple of centuries. In an extreme case, how would you feel about waiting for the sun to burn up?

Well, since you're talking extreames. The sun WILL probably burn up before GIMPS is "done" since we think there is an infinite number of larger and larger mersenne primes to find. Yet it somehow doesn't really bother us!

[Historian]

even though you know that a certain PrimeNet assignment isn't assigned to you, you'll go ahead and poach the assignment)!

Relax, cheesehead.

If you want full disclosure, I've never poached an exponent before, nor have I attempted to do so. Even if I did have a lot of spare computing power and was annoyed at seeing one exponent hold up a milestone, I'd rather use it for something else instead of using it to compete with others who may be poaching that exact same exponent.

The "pro-poaching" argument was only me playing devil's advocate.

Say, are you the same egotistical guy who was making similar arguments to these, here at mersenneforum.org a few months ago, only under a different nym

I have never said anything about poaching before yesterday. A few months ago, I had no clue this forum even existed, and if any mods want to, they can verify that my IP address and the IP address of that user do not match.

[petrw1]

With V5, every assignment has an ID.

Could not the Server notify Mr. P.O.Acher with: "Sorry this is NOT your assignment. Result rejected.". He could even be notified before he completes it if he is submitting intermediate status updates.

I realize V4 did not have IDs so it may not be as neat and obvious to notify "him" but I think the result should still be rejected.

Other scenarios include:
- Holding the result until the current assignee either completes it (Mr. Acher's result is discarded) or expires (Mr. Acher's result is accepted),
- Or in the case of an LL test Mr. Acher's result can be accepted as a DC if the current assignee completes his LL test.

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by Historian

If you want full disclosure, I've never poached an exponent before, nor have I attempted to do so. Even if I did have a lot of spare computing power and was annoyed at seeing one exponent hold up a milestone, I'd rather use it for something else instead of using it to compete with others who may be poaching that exact same exponent.

The "pro-poaching" argument was only me playing devil's advocate.

Okay. (Damned devilish :)

I have never said anything about poaching before yesterday. A few months ago, I had no clue this forum even existed, and if any mods want to, they can verify that my IP address and the IP address of that user do not match.

Okay, I accept that you're not the same guy as before.

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

Okay. (Damned devilish :)

Okay, I accept that you're not the same guy as before.

I suspect you were thinking of Kevin (no shrinking violet himself).

You:
Please don't let me be misunderstood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2FT4FprxDg

Him:
We gotta get out of this place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxNEi...eature=related

Me:
I'll spend my life in sin and misery in the house of the rising sun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmdPQ...eature=related

Lighten up Richard

David

[garo]

Well, Kevin stopped running Prime95 due to that argy bargy with cheesehead. So we do not know if cheesehead's strident anti-poachery prevented any contributors from being discouraged but we do know that it drove Kevin away. and he was a very good contributor to GIMPS and TPR so I am pissed off on my team's behalf too.