What every American should be made to learn about

[garo]

Zeta-flux: IANAL. I'm just telling you what the US code of law states. And I did not see truth-serum mentioned anywhere in that page. So I think you are wrong. I am sure a cursory google search will reveal what US jusges think about truth serum.

[ewmayer]

I'd say "gun to head" and "mock execution" qualify as "threat of imminent death". Or is there some legal subtlety I'm missing here? Bushies' lawyers arguing that "there is no proof the guns were loaded", perhaps?

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by garo

Zeta-flux: IANAL. I'm just telling you what the US code of law states. And I did not see truth-serum mentioned anywhere in that page.

I believe Zeta-flux refers to
"the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;"

[Uncwilly]

Originally Posted by Uncwilly

That is not the same as threat of execution.

Originally Posted by garo

Key word here is "imminent".

I would point you to http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resourc...ion&use1913=on definition 2
or http://www.leoyan.com/century-dictio...o=03&page=2062 definition 5

What is described in the sections that you reference would be threats of imminent death, but not "execution" (according to the common usage as associated with death). The other sections where "mock executions" are described fit the broader sense here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mock_execution

I am not justifing, defending, or in any other manner trying to support the actions. I am just quibbling over your choice in wording.

Originally Posted by garo

How do you know that judicial action was threatened?

I didn't say that it had. But, again, if they had said that they would put them on trial for jaywalking in Yankton, SD, that is not torture. Threats of legal prosecution are permitted.

Originally Posted by garo

Have you even bothered to read the article?

At the point that I had first posted, I had not had time to.
I have read the sections in question. Again, I am not defending any action.
Nor am I likely to further post in this thread, other than the next post.

[Uncwilly]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

I believe Zeta-flux refers to
"the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;"

I believe that often refers to forcing psychotic drugs (like LSD), or those that kill a single sense, or procedures like "electro-convulsive therapy", or using powerful electromagnets to mess with the person's brain, or even something like a trans-orbital lobotomy (but that would also be covered elsewhere).

I am not sure if "truth" drugs are forbidden, there may be some legal room for them. Case law would have the answer.

[garo]

Uncwilly, I find your quibbling pointless and frankly a bit sad. You are doing your best to ignore the elephant in the room.

[M29]

Originally Posted by garo

Uncwilly, I find your quibbling pointless and frankly a bit sad.

I don't agree.

If he was quibbling, he'd be LOL'ing at the smoke blowing.

Originally Posted by garo

You are doing your best to ignore the elephant in the room.

elephant in the room, mountain out of a molehill, tip of the iceberg, panties in a knot... take your pick.

[garo]

Uncwilly and I resolved our misunderstanding through private messages. Thanks for your excellent contribution M29.