Marriage and other LGBTQ Rights

[masser]

You have obviously never been to a dog park... My beagle has been on both the receiving and the giving ends of such behavior, sometimes at the same time.

And did you ever think that maybe homosexuals think of heterosexual sex as "yucky?" That's a great constitutional argument there... I can just imagine the evening news report: "Justice Robert, writing for the majority, stated the homosexual acts are 'yucky' and therefore a ban on homosexual marriage is constitutionally warranted"

[xilman]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Again, is there any hard solid evidence of it coming from animals? Or is it just a case of left-wing scientists who don't want to believe that an illogical behavior that has been a major issue for their political party is unhealthy?

Yes, there is hard evidence for HIV coming from animals, specifically West African chimpanzees and bonobos. The HIV and SIV viruses have very similar genetic structures and are clearly related. SIV infection is widespread in the two species in question.

The earliest known death from HIV is that of a British merchant sailor who contracted the disease in the 1950s and died later the same decade. I've no idea whether he was gay or not. To me, it seems most probable that he caught HIV from an African prostitute during his voyages (he is known to have visited West Africa) but that's pure speculation on my part.

Incidentally, bonobos are among the most sexually active and promiscuous mammals known. Homosexual relationships are very common indeed, with male-male and female-female sexual activities both normal and well-documented.


Paul

[99.94]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

And just look at all the diseases such as AIDS that spawned from it. Do you think that such diseases would spring out of a behaviour that human bodies were made to do? No, of course not.

So, if you think about it logically, it's just plain not the way the human body is meant to operate--the same way that humans aren't designed to eat rocks and dirt.

You're suggesting that HIV|AIDS is peculiar to the Gay community, perhaps? You're serious?

[cheesehead]

Anonymous,

There are several folks posing questions to you, so let me say that I don't expect you to explicitly answer the questions I pose below, but simply ask you to ponder them enough to come up with your own answers even if you don't post them here.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

And just look at all the diseases such as AIDS that spawned from it. Do you think that such diseases would spring out of a behaviour that human bodies were made to do? No, of course not.

Actually, among AIDS researchers the leading explanation that best fits all known facts is that humans first contracted the SIV virus, which then mutated into the HIV virus, when handling bloody carcasses of chimpanzees killed (by humans) for eating.

So, do you claim that human bodies were not made to kill chimpanzees or to handle their bloody carcasses?

What about the well-documented finding that in recent years the most common mode of HIV transmission in Africa is through heterosexual vaginal intercourse, not homosexual acts?

So, if you think about it logically, it's just plain not the way the human body is meant to operate

Logical thinking would, presumably, include consideration of accurate observations of human and other animal behavior, right? ... even if this contradicted common sense or some religious teachings about what was meant to happen ... right?

[Zeta-Flux]

I know I said I'd stay out, but I just have a quick question (and I don't think anyone will take offense). I was aware that homosexual behavior occured in animals, but I was under the impression that it was either due to (1) having an inability to differentiate between sexes [e.g. scientists messed with fruit fly's abilities to differentiate], (2) rampant sexual drive [e.g. animals which make love with inanimate objects given half the chance], or (3) not being given the option of having an opposite gender partner [e.g. sheep in a pen]. Am I incorrect that these are the motivators in the animal kingdom? Are there examples of animals forming lasting homosexual unions when none of those three factors are present?

[xilman]

Originally Posted by Zeta-Flux

Am I incorrect that these are the motivators in the animal kingdom? Are there examples of animals forming lasting homosexual unions when none of those three factors are present?

They are some of the motivators, but there others. Bonobos use sexual activity for societal purposes, in much the same way as other species use mutual grooming to form social bonds.

Bonobos certainly form homosexual unions, but not unions exclusive to a pair of individuals. As I mentioned earlier, they are quite promiscuous and share their affections widely. In may respects, they appear to adhere to the ideals of the free-love movement which became popular in certain human societies 40 years ago (it's always been popular in other human societies).

Bonobos really are fascinating. They share a great number of characteristics, physical and behavioural, with humans.

Paul

[robo_mojo]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Besides the fact that, as a Christian, I believe homosexuality is a sin, it's just plain weird. I mean, think about it--it's really gross (really, you poop out of that hole!), not to mention that it's clearly not natural.

Homosexual sex IS gross and I'd rather not do it myself, but at least they do it in private, out of our view!

Similarly, I am grossed out by people who preach irrational religious beliefs. And they do it in public with everyone watching, no less!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Have you ever heard of any animals doing it? No, of course not. If it was the way things were supposed to be done, then wouldn't you think there'd be at least one other species out there that does it?

I have seen dogs do it. Assumption void.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

And just look at all the diseases such as AIDS that spawned from it. Do you think that such diseases would spring out of a behaviour that human bodies were made to do? No, of course not.

Diseases don't care whether you're gay or not. Unless you think your God made diseases specifically to effect gay people (and you can quickly discover that to be false). Other than that I really don't even understand the thought process that could lead a person to make such assumptions.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

So, if you think about it logically,

Would you like to?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

it's just plain not the way the human body is meant to operate

If you stop trying to find meaning in everything and just see everything for what it is, you might find yourself to be a lot happier and less likely to find yourself at conflict with everything that is different from yourself.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

--the same way that humans aren't designed to eat rocks and dirt.

No, but you might find it interesting that birds eat rocks. And dogs will eat dirt. Well, it is interesting to me, anyway.

[AES]

IMO it's an issue for voters in each state which issues the license. The federal government has done enough damage.

And if the worse thing your dog eats is dirt... consider yourself lucky.

[Zeta-Flux]

xilman,

Thanks. Perhaps I should have broken #2 into two different categories: indiscriminate and social functioning. My question was more along the lines of seeing in the animal kingdom what some humans claim for themselves. (I.e. a small but sizable portion of the species only attracted to those of their own gender, but not due to mental and/or hormonal deficiency, or due to lack of mates, or fulfilling an alternate/lesser social role, or an overactive drive.)

[robo_mojo]

Originally Posted by robo_mojo

...diseases specifically to effect gay people...

Affect, not effect. Oops.

[crash893]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Besides the fact that, as a Christian, I believe homosexuality is a sin, it's just plain weird. I mean, think about it--it's really gross (really, you poop out of that hole!), not to mention that it's clearly not natural. Have you ever heard of any animals doing it? No, of course not. If it was the way things were supposed to be done, then wouldn't you think there'd be at least one other species out there that does it? And just look at all the diseases such as AIDS that spawned from it. Do you think that such diseases would spring out of a behaviour that human bodies were made to do? No, of course not.

So, if you think about it logically, it's just plain not the way the human body is meant to operate--the same way that humans aren't designed to eat rocks and dirt.

i think thats a little beyond the scope of the questions.

The question is not: should homosexuals have anal sex

the question is should the legally be able to marry. And lets face it the legal status of there marriage is not stooping anything that is not already going on anyway.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qCzbNkyXO50