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Old 2008-11-08, 16:58   #748
cheesehead's Avatar
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA

170148 Posts

Originally Posted by AES View Post
The President and Congress made the decision to change Iraq.
The President made the decision to deceive Congress and the American people about what his administration knew about Iraq, with the goal of swaying them to support his preconceived-before-he-took-office determination to invade Iraq.

I distinctly recall the feelings I had after his pronouncements about WMDs in Iraq -- there was a great deal of fear, which strongly tempted me to agree with his recommendation to invade Iraq. Had I been 30 years younger, I might have succumbed to that. But the additional experience and knowledge and "wisdom" I had acquired since my twenties allowed me to see past the fear to analyze how Bush was trying to deliberately manipulate us, just as he had after 9/11 (and just as in recent GOP pre-election appeals to fear -- see my earlier posting about how thoughts of death influence ones political views).

I carefully listened/watched as Powell made the presentation to the UN about chemical weapons in Iraq. I kept waiting for him to present the clenching item that would complete the argument ... but he didn't. I could tell that Powell was not presenting a complete, sound argument backed by evidence at all points!

(... and if I could, so could many others who weren't in thrall to Republican manipulation.)

We can "Monday morning quarterback" all we like.
Yes, but some of us learn how to apply our knowledge and experience ahead of decisions in order to apply the lessons of the past. I started to consciously do so with respect to the current Bush administration about seven years ago.

I'm looking forward.
But are you learning from the lessons of history now, so that you can avoid being misled by political leaders in the future????

Originally Posted by AES View Post
You already posted that link, and I already read the article. That doesn't explain what you meant by "execute the ultimate 'bait and switch' on enemies of western civilization", even when you add:
Then, assume Obama follows the "Bush Doctrine" at a critical moment.
Please explain what you mean by "Obama follows the 'Bush Doctrine' at a critical moment". You may think it's obvious what you mean, and you like to be cute by only hinting at it, but actually there are multiple ways to interpret your terse hints, and it's irritating for you to make us guess which one you mean. (Notice that I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you realize there is more than one way to interpret what you wrote. It is possible that the reason you aren't more explicit is that you have not actually realized that there are multiple interpretations, but that would be less flattering to you.)

Like I said, Just a thought...
... and, like I conveyed, an _incomplete_ one. Please finish it for us, or we may conclude that you actually have no such complete thought and are only pretending that you have something profound to say.

Richard, I don't agree with the decision to attack Iraq using my 20/20 hindsight.
I didn't agree with that decision, using my 20/20 foresight, _even before the attack began_. What I'm trying to do now is to teach others how to learn from the lessons of history, so that the next time some political leader tries to sway you emotionally to agree with something that's not realistically sound, you'll know how to recognize the attempted manipulation and resist it!

Currently, what I fear is another genocide like the "Cambodian killing fields", if we withdraw prematurely.
Okay. Can you calmly list a dozen _other_ considerations, also based on history but not so influenced by fear?

Last fiddled with by ewmayer on 2008-11-10 at 16:30 Reason: Last paragraph elided at OP's request
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