Vista woes
 

Hoping anyone can help as there is little info on Vista on the website...

The GIMPS [URL="http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm"]download page[/URL] says the following:[quote]
[B]Windows Vista: WARNING:[/B] Vista no longer supports services that interact with the desktop. Follow the download instructions below for Windows XP and the [B]first time[/B] [emphasis added] you run prime95 make sure the "Start at bootup" option is not selected.
[/quote]Does this mean that if I have Vista that I have to manually restart Prime95 each time the computer reboots? Or can the "Start at bootup" option be used once Prime95 has been run at least once (as the bolded portion above seems to imply)? This particular machine seems to reboot itself overnight on a regular basis (every couple days), so being forced to manually restart will cause a lot of downtime. :down:

Any particular issues in this regard with running two copies of Prime95 on a Dual Core machine?

Also, I am seeing a significant perf hit, despite having the RAM on both P95 instances set to 225MB, less than 50% of the total RAM available (1GB). Currently, one instance is doing LL on a 33MM exponent, the other is doing P-1 on a 38.5MM exponent. I thought the general notion was that if only spare cycles were used, one should essentially not notice P95 at all -- which is what I observe on my Athlon 64 running XP.

Yes, I have changed the System setting regarding foreground vs. background threads, and that did help significantly.

Any thoughts from Vista users or experts?

i use vista and when i have it selected it asks for admin permissions evey time it starts
so it works for me but it is a bit annoying having to click yes every time when others use the pc

[QUOTE=henryzz;122893]i use vista and when i have it selected it asks for admin permissions evey time it starts
so it works for me but it is a bit annoying having to click yes every time when others use the pc[/QUOTE]George, you reading this thread?

Why should prime95 not be able to run as a completely uprivileged user? I can't think of any good reason myself.

Paul

[quote=xilman;122903]George, you reading this thread?

Why should prime95 not be able to run as a completely uprivileged user? I can't think of any good reason myself.[/quote]FWIW, I'll point out that Vista security in general is ridiculous... to delete a sub-directory I have to tell it three times that I'm really really REALLY sure I want to do so, and I hold Bill Gates harmless and indemnify him against all foes, foreign and domestic.... etc.

Everything they say in those Mac ads is [U]not[/U] an exaggeration. :yucky:

[QUOTE=tallguy;122905]FWIW, I'll point out that Vista security in general is ridiculous... to delete a sub-directory I have to tell it three times that I'm really really REALLY sure I want to do so, and I hold Bill Gates harmless and indemnify him against all foes, foreign and domestic.... etc.

Everything they say in those Mac ads is [U]not[/U] an exaggeration. :yucky:[/QUOTE]

Just hope you never, ever do anything [whether intentionally or not] that even remotely resembles [url=http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html]premium content[/url] -- and note how incredibly shape-shifty the definition of that is.

[QUOTE=tallguy;122905]FWIW, I'll point out that Vista security in general is ridiculous... to delete a sub-directory I have to tell it three times that I'm really really REALLY sure I want to do so, and I hold Bill Gates harmless and indemnify him against all foes, foreign and domestic.... etc.[/QUOTE]Then why are you using Vista if you dislike it so much?

It's not that there aren't plenty of alternatives. This post is being composed on a Gentoo Linux machine. In the same room as me (my study at home) are boxes capable of WinXP, W2K server, Free BSD, Solaris, Mac OS-X, Irix, several other Linux distributions and WinCE. To be fair, not all of them are powered up right now but all are capable of working should I want to do so. The only ones powered up are RH7, RH9, Gentoo and Fedora 5 --- all versions of Linux.

The Vista machine is my wife's, so not in my study. TBH, I rather like it and is the best OS MS has ever produced IMO. My experience with MS operating systems goes back to the early days and includes (if I remember correctly) DOS 3, 4, 5 and 6; Win 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, Me, NT4, W2k (Pro and server), WinXP and now Vista.

Paul

P.S. The list above covers only the "real" computers. I've sundry 1980's and 1990's calculators, pocket PCs, PDAs and so forth. One of my Xmas presents this year is a Casio IF-8000 in full working order (AFAICT) but, sadly, no manual. If anyone has a copy, please let me know.

[quote=xilman;122909]Then why are you using Vista if you dislike it so much?[/quote]When you have:[LIST=1][*]little money[*]little in the way of technical skill[*]little time[/LIST]...you go to a big box store and buy what is on the shelf. Vista was all that was available in the price range we could afford. I have no idea how to get rid of it, or I would.

[QUOTE=tallguy;122912]Vista was all that was available in the price range we could afford. I have no idea how to get rid of it, or I would.[/QUOTE]

You could always upgrade, erm, I mean, downgrade [i][must...use...officially...specified...Microsoft...product...option...descriptors...][/i] to XP, but note that this is an option *only* for Vista Business and Ultimate owners - Home Basic and Home Premium users [I expect that translates to "nearly all of you"] are, alas, SOL. Apparently there's been enough complaints about Vista [especially from the business community ... I notice my company won't touch the stuff - OTOH roughly half our build servers have been happily running 64-bit linux for quite some time] that even the ram-it-down-their-throats tactics normally employed by MSFT have had to be modified, by way of an "official downgrade" option. [Ever heard of such a ridiculous thing in any other industry before, from a company of similar size? I haven't].

Here's a couple links: Again, this is an option *only* for Vista Business and Ultimate owners:

[url=http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9040318]FAQ: Giving up on Vista? Here's how to downgrade to XP[/url]

[url=http://www.news.com/The-XP-alternative-for-Vista-PCs/2100-1016_3-6209481.html]The XP alternative for Vista PCs | CNET News.com[/url]

I bought a new Core2Duo laptop last Fall and made damn sure it was running XP - I think I may have even wound up paying a bit extra, based on price comparison to similarly-equipped C2D notebooks running Vista. To their credit, some big-name retailers like Dell seem to be going out of their way to offer XP to their customers, but as tallguy notes, for folks on a budget, it's getting harder to find a non-Vista offering.

[quote=xilman]The Vista machine is my wife's, so not in my study. TBH, I rather like it and is the best OS MS has ever produced IMO.[/quote]

In your completely unbiased opinion, right, Paul? You say the Vista-running PC is your wife's - so how many hours have *you* actually spent using it? I ask, because I'm trying to get a sense of whether the "O" in the "IMO" is actually based on real usage experience.

[i][Disclaimer Which Paul Unfortunately Neglected: He works for a certain unnamed "large software concern based in Redmond, WA". Which is not to say that that biases his opinions re. MSFT products in any way.][/i]

disclaimer of my own: I do not, never have [nor will I ever] work for MSFT, nor have or do I work for any of its competitors. I have not used Vista - and quite frankly hope to avoid ever having to, except in a very standoffish build-code-that-runs-on-it-using-a-machine-not-owned-by-me fashion, but have extensively used XP.

Paul, please don't take any of my Vista-related comments personally - but based on the numerous articles I've read, I have concluded that what MSFT is trying to foist on the customer by way of Vista is an extremely raw deal - the word "evil" comes to mind. What most people don't appreciate - because to do so requires some pretty high-tech savvy and gory details, as laid out in the article I linked - is to what extent Vista is a ticking time bomb for the user, in the sense that it will only become obvious once the "premium content" becomes "more-or-less-default content". Did you even bother to read any of Peter Gutmann's article? I can't speak for most folks, but when I see a list of section headers like this:

[i]Introduction
Disabling of Functionality
Indirect Disabling of Functionality
Decreased Playback Quality
Elimination of Open-source Hardware Support
Elimination of Unified Drivers
Problems with Drivers
Denial-of-Service via Driver/Device Revocation
Decreased System Reliability
Increased Hardware Costs
Increased Cost due to Requirement to License Unnecessary Third-party IP
Unnecessary CPU Resource Consumption
Unnecessary Device Resource Consumption
How Effective is it Really?
Final Thoughts[/i]

And gorily detailed, verifiable factual details in each section, that raises a few red flags in my mind. Again, maybe that's just me.

We run Vista on our C2Q, but we run our real OS (Debian Lenny) in a VMware session using the free VMware Player software. It allows us to use 2 of the 4 cores and full screen you'd never know it was a VM except for the title bar at the top. All of our peripherals work and the response is very fast.

You probably wouldn't want to run any serious math software in a VM but for regular usage it is perfect.

And we can just back up the VM directory to take periodic snapshots of the system.

We have the Vista part underneath locked down pretty tight but we only see the Vista part when we occasionally reboot.

We run our DC software as a service under Vista and it just runs quietly without intervention.

You can tweak (or build) a .vmx file to do a lot of cool stuff without having to purchase the full VMware Workstation package. There are tons of sites that describe all the options and stuff.

Our only complaint is we cannot use all 4GB of our memory (we get only 3.25GB) but we can't afford to upgrade to 64-bit Vista and the particular DC software we run requires Windows.

All in all, it is a very healthy compromise.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;122916]In your completely unbiased opinion, right, Paul? You say the Vista-running PC is your wife's - so how many hours have *you* actually spent using it? I ask, because I'm trying to get a sense of whether the "O" in the "IMO" is actually based on real usage experience.[/quote]
The machine arrived 4 weeks ago. Since then, I've performed the post-install configuration, transferred all my wife's files and settings from her old XP box, installed Cygwin and my number theory code, including the ECMNET client and a NFS lattice siever. I've used it for general web browsing, playing games and general futzing around. I also took the opportunity to examine Vista's entrails in some detail through a thorough exploration of the control panel applets, paying special attention to the services running or not and their start-up options. Some, such as the teleophony service, which are not required in our environment were disabled. The less unnecessary crap running, the better. That said, it was entirely reasonable (IMO) for Dell to have configured telephony service active because a surprisingly large number of people here in the UK still do not have broadband access and are relying on dial-up.

All in all, I estimate I've probably used the machine for around 20 hours and much of that use has been non-trivial.
[QUOTE=ewmayer;122916][i][Disclaimer Which Paul Unfortunately Neglected: He works for a certain unnamed "large software concern based in Redmond, WA". Which is not to say that that biases his opinions re. MSFT products in any way.][/i][/QUOTE]That, Sir, is a lie and a canard. I demand an apology.

I used to work for Microsoft Research Limited, a company registered in the United Kingdom. That is a matter of public record. Also as a matter of public record is that while working there, at their lab in Cambridge (UK, not Mass.) I installed most and administered all of the Unix-like machines of various kinds in the lab. I am very familiar with the pros and cons of various contemporary operating systems.

I left MSR in July 2004. Since February 2005 I have been working for the FlyBase consortium at their Cambridge office in the Department of Genetics at Cambridge University. Even a cursory web search would have turned up ample evidence to support this claim. For instance, when Googling '"Paul Leyland" Cambridge' just now I found that hits 4, 6, 7 and 10 --- the most recent ones --- all indicate that I'm working for the university.

Which is it Ernst, incompetence or malice?


Paul

[QUOTE=tallguy;122912]When you have:[LIST=1][*]little money[*]little in the way of technical skill[*]little time[/LIST]...you go to a big box store and buy what is on the shelf. Vista was all that was available in the price range we could afford. I have no idea how to get rid of it, or I would.[/QUOTE]Here's the process:

a) use a search engine to find a company willing to sell you a Linux (or BSD) distribution for little or no cost.

b) purchase the distribution. I bought a Linux for my DEC Alpha box for under £5.

c) use a search engine (or ask friends/acquaintances/contacts) to find a good source of information on basic Linux (or BSD) usage. Be prepared to spend a little on a book if you like to have hardcopy available.

d) boot your machine from the CD/DVD obtained in step b) and follow the on-screen instructions.

That's it.


Paul