Daylight Saving Time
 

I note that the USA now has an extra month of DST.
I shall be envious when it's dark at 5 p.m. here in England
this evening.

David

[QUOTE=davieddy;117225]I shall be envious when it's dark at 5 p.m. here in England this evening.[/QUOTE]

Why? It's just one more week. :whistle:

Its 3 week more total, 2 weeks earlier in the spring and 1 week later in the autumn:

Check under UK and US:
[URL="http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst2007.html"]http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst2007.html[/URL]

At 2 a.m. I opened the Date and Time Properties window in XP to see if it would automatically set the clock back an hour. It did. When I came down later, XP had wound the clock back again and was an hour slow. Stupid Windows can't even subtract 1 successfully! I'm surprised it didn't get into an infinite loop.

[quote=ATH;117233]Its 3 week more total, 2 weeks earlier in the spring and 1 week later in the autumn:

[/quote]

And when there are 5 Sundays in March, the 2nd Sunday
will be three weeks earlier than the last Sunday.

[quote=Flatlander;117248]At 2 a.m. I opened the Date and Time Properties window in XP to see if it would automatically set the clock back an hour. It did. When I came down later, XP had wound the clock back again and was an hour slow. Stupid Windows can't even subtract 1 successfully! I'm surprised it didn't get into an infinite loop.[/quote]

A watched pot boils twice:smile:

[QUOTE=davieddy;117225]I note that the USA now has an extra month of DST.[/QUOTE]

I really hope we simply go on DST and stay there year-round starting sometime soon. I can manage to haul my carcass our of bed on winter mornings when it's still dark without terrible difficulty, but I detest the brutally short evenings, leaving work and having it already be dark, all that.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;117291]I really hope we simply go on DST and stay there year-round starting sometime soon. I can manage to haul my carcass our of bed on winter mornings when it's still dark without terrible difficulty, but I detest the brutally short evenings, leaving work and having it already be dark, all that.[/QUOTE]During WW2 the USA was on year round DST and during certain times went to double DST. Much power was saved.

[quote=Uncwilly;117299]During WW2 the USA was on year round DST and during certain times went to double DST. Much power was saved.[/quote]
I think the same applied to Britain. My father remembered double DST
with affection. At our latitude, it would still be light at 11 p.m. in midsummer.

My father also told me that during WW2 we had double DST in Portugal. Although it would be somehow "artificial" I wouldn´t mind having it again. I find more useful to have daylight in the evening than in early morning.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;117291]I really hope we simply go on DST and stay there year-round starting sometime soon. I can manage to haul my carcass our of bed on winter mornings when it's still dark without terrible difficulty, but I detest the brutally short evenings, leaving work and having it already be dark, all that.[/QUOTE]

Wny not leave the clock as it is, and just get up and go to bed an hour earlier?

As far as I know there are serious doubts about the power savings induced by DST. DST is a nightmare for parents of little children, dairy farmers and people having to have schedules match among others.

For my part I prefer to go to work in the morning in daylight, in the evenings I always go to bed after sunset so I do not mind to much having night start a bit earlier...

Jacob

[QUOTE=davieddy;117304]I think the same applied to Britain. My father remembered double DST
with affection. At our latitude, it would still be light at 11 p.m. in midsummer.[/QUOTE]

Here in Denmark about the same latitude (well depends on where in Britain) its light until 10:45-11pm with just 1 DST at midsummer.

My mom said Denmark had year-round DST during the war, but not sure if it was double DST.

[quote=ATH;117336]Here in Denmark about the same latitude (well depends on where in Britain) its light until 10:45-11pm with just 1 DST at midsummer.

[/quote]
That figures: latitude ~same as Scotland, longitude ~10 degrees east,
CET = GMT+1.

[QUOTE=S485122;117334]DST is a nightmare for parents of little children[/QUOTE]
Why? So it's dark when they wake up to get ready to school, but OTOH it's still light when they come home from school.

[QUOTE]dairy farmers[/QUOTE]
Why? Aren't they the ones who get up long before sunrise year-round?

[QUOTE]and people having to have schedules match among others.[/QUOTE]
Huh?

[QUOTE]For my part I prefer to go to work in the morning in daylight, in the evenings I always go to bed after sunset[/QUOTE]
You go to bed at 5pm in the winter?

DST is a nightmare for parents of little children

ewmayer : Why? So it's dark when they wake up to get ready to school, but OTOH it's still light when they come home from school.

Children tend to stick to their natural rythm and they will go on waking up at the same "astrological time" whithout respect for the official clock of their country.

dairy farmers

ewmayer : Why? Aren't they the ones who get up long before sunrise year-round?

cows and goats do not change their natural rythm as easily : it means the farmer will have to do their daily tasks ignoring the time change, but supplierst, customers and social relations will change will not.

and people having to have schedules match among others.

ewmayer : Huh?

Try maintaining matching train or bus connections accross countries some of whom change their time and others don't.

For my part I prefer to go to work in the morning in daylight, in the evenings I always go to bed after sunset

ewmayer : You go to bed at 5pm in the winter?

Not at sunset, after sunset. I go to bed after 17:00, after 23:00 to be more precise and at that time it is always dark under my latitude.

Jacob

[QUOTE=S485122;117362]Children tend to stick to their natural rythm and they will go on waking up at the same "astrological time" whithout respect for the official clock of their country.
................
Try maintaining matching train or bus connections accross countries some of whom change their time and others don't.[/QUOTE]Children have problems getting up before sunrise anytime of the year, DST or no.

Dealing with timezones is a common occurance. It used to be worse when every little village had their own time. Some of the US states and some parts of others don't change. Your mobile phone should deal with the change without a problem. And if you use a GPS nav, same thing. Printed air travel iteneraries always reference the local time, not the time of the departure or the arrival. So on a ticket with a stop over, there may be 3 time zones, but the times are listed in reference to the city that the traveler is in, thus making it simpler and avoids confusion when booking other services.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;117367]Dealing with timezones is a common occurance. It used to be worse when every little village had their own time. Some of the US states and some parts of others don't change. Your mobile phone should deal with the change without a problem. And if you use a GPS nav, same thing. Printed air travel iteneraries always reference the local time, not the time of the departure or the arrival. So on a ticket with a stop over, there may be 3 time zones, but the times are listed in reference to the city that the traveler is in, thus making it simpler and avoids confusion when booking other services.[/QUOTE]I seem to have myself expressed badly indeed. What I meant is that all those different DST schemes are a nightmare for people having to establish the schedules of airplanes, trains and so on, not so much for the people using them, they always have to cope with long waits between connecting fares ;-)

Jacob, all your clarifications above appear to be further arguments in favor of "pick one time scheme and stick with it year-round" - meaning the decision then becomes which of the 2 schemes one's country alternates between during the course of a year to use. I bet if we polled the citizens of a typical country as to whether they would want to stay on the scheme giving them an extra hour of daylight in the morning or the evening, the overwhelming majority would choose the latter.

===

[i][b]Edit:[/b] Poll added.[/i]

[QUOTE=ewmayer;117385]Jacob, all your clarifications above appear to be further arguments in favor of "pick one time scheme and stick with it year-round"[/QUOTE]Indeed.

[quote=Uncwilly;117299]During WW2 the USA was on year round DST and during certain times went to double DST. Much power was saved.[/quote]
I googled this:
[URL]http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/bst2.htm[/URL]

In particular:
<<
British Summer Time was permanently in force during the
Second World War from February 1940 until October 1945 and again
from February 1968 until October 1971.
Double summer time was in force from 1941-1947 except for 1946.
>>

I knew we had been on permanent DST for a time since WW2. It
coincides precisely with my time at Oxford University. Should
have remembered that:smile:

David

Let the Insurgency Begin!
 

I am keeping my daily commute schedule as if it were still Daylight Saving Time - have to cross several very busy streets between the office and the bus stop, and doing so will allow me to do so in the evenings while there is still a bit of daylight remaining. So instead of being in the office from ~9am-6pm most days, it'll be ~8am-5pm.

Oh wait, this would all sound much more exciting if embellished with islamic-militant-style rhetorical flourishes - let's see:

[i]"The insurgency against the debauched Western standard-time crusaders has begun ... the streets shall flow with the blood of the anti-evening-twilight infidels..."[/i]

Alas, evening TV schedules are determined by the lackeys of the aforementioned standard-time infidels, so we'll whether I can keep it up 'til spring.

The poll is not really applicable in western Europe, Brussels for instance is situated 4° 26' 9 " East. With "winter" time (UTC -1) that would give sunrise at 6:42, sunset at 18:42. With "summer" time (UTC -2) that would give sunrise at 7:42, sunset at 19:42 almost double DST ! For Brest in western France the winter times would even be 07:18 / 19:88 and summer times 08:18 / 20:18. If you go to western spain in the Galicia province you can be at 9° 15' West, still using CET, DST sunrise 8:37, sunset 20:37...

Jacob

[quote=S485122;118039]The poll is not really applicable in western Europe, Brussels for instance is situated 4° 26' 9 " East. With "winter" time (UTC -1) that would give sunrise at 6:42, sunset at 18:42. With "summer" time (UTC -2) that would give sunrise at 7:42, sunset at 19:42 almost double DST ! For Brest in western France the winter times would even be 07:18 / 19:88 and summer times 08:18 / 20:18. If you go to western spain in the Galicia province you can be at 9° 15' West, still using CET, DST sunrise 8:37, sunset 20:37...

Jacob[/quote]
You are talking about the equinox. At our latitudes, the variable
length of the day lends more sense to changing the clocks than
in California say.
BTW if UTC were 6:00 and CET 7:00, why do you say CET=UTC-1 ?

David

PS As JS Bach would say: "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbestes Zeit" ;)

The Poll doesn't work very well for us in Canada either.

In Saskatchewan we are always on DST (our clocks never change ... great for IT people ... :w00t::w00t::w00t:) ... one of only a few places in all of North America.

However, to your poll:

By June 21 we get sun up before 5:00 AM and sunset close to 10:00 PM.
On a work day in the summer I can play a round of golf before work and another after work.
By December 21: Sun up about 9:00 AM; sunset about 5:00 PM.
We leave for work in the dark and come home in the dark

[QUOTE=S485122;118039]The poll is not really applicable in western Europe[/QUOTE]

Sure it is - your examples are simply illustrative of the local geographical and where-am-I-with-respect-to-my-time-zone considerations one might use when deciding on one's answer to the poll. It's very simple: for places in the world which use a one-hour-separated binary summer/winter time scheme, which of the 2 schemes would the folks in the respective regions prefer, if they had to pick one and use it year-round? I don't see how that is unapplicable in Europe, Canada, Elbonia, etc.

[quote=axn1;117227]Why? It's just one more week. :whistle:[/quote]
And here it is:smile:
See "British Summer Time" thread.

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