[QUOTE=ewmayer;316598]Perhaps, but especially in the New York City area I suggest first discussing the much-more-tractable issues such as "why do even wealthy cities like New York continue to allow - and even encourage - the placing of vital transportation, electrical and communications infrastructure below sea level, guaranteeing that it will be flooded in a rare but inevitable event like a once-in-a-century-style hurricane?"[/QUOTE]

Perhaps because it is much cheaper to occasionally pump out water from such infrastructure than rebuilding the above-ground "transmission and distribution" networks destroyed by wind?

And there are many countries who have territory below sea-level.

Look, let's face facts, shall we... Everyone knows climate change is real.

The debate is if it's anthropogenic, or natural.

Interestingly, those countries who have the most hydrocarbon reserves are either used to being warn, or will benefit from it being warmer. Northwest passage, anyone?

[QUOTE=chalsall;316685]Perhaps because it is much cheaper to occasionally pump out water from such infrastructure than rebuilding the above-ground "transmission and distribution" networks destroyed by wind?[/quote]
I'm not talking about simple stuff like transmission lines - there are good reasons to put those underground. I'm talking about things like electrical switching-gear closets, emergency generators, that sort of thing, which typically resides in some kind of compact utility closet or vault, which is structurally very strong but not proof against more-or-less complete submersion. Neither wind, rain nor even falling trees would be a major issue for above-ground versions of such highly reinforced structures. But immersion in water - especially saltwater - is typically lethal to such things, and in many instances it's not just a matter of pumping out the water, it's a complete loss. Also, once saltwater gets into stuff, you may never get it all out, and the resulting corrosion will continue silently but unabated.

It's useful to use all the automobiles that got immersed in saltwater as a metaphor for the deeper infrastructure damage: One can dry out and clean up such a car and get it running again in not-too-difficult fashion. But prospective used-car buyers have good reason to stay away from such vehicles (egad, again with "superstorm" silliness):

[url=www.examiner.com/article/after-sandy-used-car-buyers-need-to-beware-of-flood-damaged-vehicles]After Sandy, Used Car Buyers Need to Beware of Flood Damaged Vehicles[/url]: [i]Superstorm Sandy could unleash a new wave of damage on future unsuspecting used car buyers, as experts predict that flood-damaged cars will hit car lots across the country.[/i]

Also, there were instances of critical facilities like hospitals whose emergency generators failed. Completely unacceptable - such critical systems should be proof against "historically bad" scenarios times some multiple, by way of a safety factor. Worst historic storm surge in your area was N feet? Then you put all the critical stuff at least 2N feet above sea level.

[QUOTE]And there are many countries who have territory below sea-level.[/QUOTE]
The smart and wealthier ones of which have been historically proactive in this regard. For instance the Netherlands. Also, we're talking about one's of the world's densest and wealthiest coastal urban centers here, not frickin' Bangladesh. Moreover one which has been hit by similar weather in its recorded history.

[QUOTE]Look, let's face facts, shall we... Everyone knows climate change is real.

The debate is if it's anthropogenic, or natural.[/QUOTE]
That debate will likely still be raging long after we are dead and gone. Even if it were settled magically today, it would still be mostly irrelevant as far as the issue of "how should coastal cities protect themselves against events such as Sandy?" is concerned, since we can neither cool the planet nor move places like New York City to higher ground simply as a result of agreeing that "global warming is real".

[QUOTE=ewmayer;316688]That debate will likely still be raging long after we are dead and gone. Even if it were settled magically today, it would still be mostly irrelevant as far as the issue of "how should coastal cities protect themselves against events such as Sandy?" is concerned, since we can neither cool the planet nor move places like New York City to higher ground simply as a result of agreeing that "global warming is real".[/QUOTE]

Very skillfully said.

74 words.

No content....

[QUOTE=ewmayer;316688]The smart and wealthier ones of which have been historically proactive in this regard. For instance the Netherlands. Also, we're talking about one's of the world's densest and wealthiest coastal urban centers here, [B][I][U]not frickin' Bangladesh[/U][/I][/B]. Moreover one which has been hit by similar weather in its recorded history.[/QUOTE]

No further questions.

[QUOTE=chalsall;316693]No further questions.[/QUOTE]

Actually, no further questions. But perhaps a statement...

[YOUTUBE]9bZkp7q19f0[/YOUTUBE]

Too much davieddy has made me swear off random Youtube video links with no accompanying content description. My point was that unlike poor coastal areas of the world, places like NYC have no "not enough money" excuse for crap infrastructure.

You've been rickrolled in Korean, Ernst. Congratulations, I think?

I'm down with that - I watch nearly as much Korean TV (big fan of the "whenever the plot threatens to get slow, send in stealthy assassins saltoing over the rooftops" historical costume dramas) as I do english-language.

감사합니다 (pronounced roughly "gamsa hamnida")

[QUOTE=ewmayer;316688]But immersion in water - especially saltwater - is typically lethal to such things, and in many instances it's not just a matter of pumping out the water, it's a complete loss. Also, once saltwater gets into stuff, you may never get it all out, and the resulting corrosion will continue silently but unabated.
[/QUOTE]As one of the NYC officials pointed out in an interview: Because large amounts of salt are used to deice the NYC streets each winter, for a long time all the equipment they put underground has already been designed to withstand/prevent such corrosion from salt.

Now, a total seawater immersion is not quite the same as splashes of runoff from the street, but it's not like no one ever considered the corrosion problem.

Call for more robust electronics and electrical systems:

[url]http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/now-hear-this/4400435/Electronics-brought-to-extremes-by-Sandy[/url]

[QUOTE=ewmayer;316779]I'm down with that - I watch nearly as much Korean TV (big fan of the "whenever the plot threatens to get slow, send in stealthy assassins saltoing over the rooftops" historical costume dramas) as I do english-language.

감사합니다 (pronounced roughly "gamsa hamnida")[/QUOTE]
올드보이 is excellent. Puts "Audition" to shame. ;-) (well, not entirely.)
Yeah... they have some pretty good movies.