[QUOTE=chalsall;414675]I actually resonate with that strongly. Life will survive, no matter what we stupid humans do.

But... I value humans for their unique intelligence (and their opposing thumb, and their use of electricity)...

Two points:

First, I don't think it is fair that the underprivileged are disadvantaged by the wealthy. We live in air-conditioned homes and offices, eat food shipped half way around the world for our enjoyment, buy and use products manufactured by those who make 1 / 10th to 1 / 100th of us per day. We don't seem to give a crap about what it takes to work in very unforgiving situations.

Second, shortly the AI's will take over. Water cooling anyone?

(Just to be clear, this post is meant to be funny, and serious, at the same time.)[/QUOTE]

The planet isn't in danger. WE ARE. The possibility of a recede is real.
Loss of living space as coastal cities flood. Diversion of economic resources to handle
flooding; resources that would be better used elsewhere. Loss of crops as we get more frequent and
systemic droughts. Loss of habitats for fish as the seas warm up. Disruptions in the food chain.
Direct deaths from extreme weather. Inability of those without economic resources to adapt.
etc. etc.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;414678]The planet isn't in danger. WE ARE. The possibility of a recede is real.
Loss of living space as coastal cities flood. Diversion of economic resources to handle
flooding; resources that would be better used elsewhere. Loss of crops as we get more frequent and
systemic droughts. Loss of habitats for fish as the seas warm up. Disruptions in the food chain.
Direct deaths from extreme weather. Inability of those without economic resources to adapt.
etc. etc.[/QUOTE]

Note also that these are conditions that can lead to widespread war. 'Can', not 'will'.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;414679]Note also that these are conditions that can lead to widespread war. 'Can', not 'will'.[/QUOTE]

A very interesting and important point. I sincerely ask you:

Would you agree that the economics of war might suggest profit to those providing arms?

[QUOTE=chalsall;414681]A very interesting and important point. I sincerely ask you:

Would you agree that the economics of war might suggest profit to those providing arms?[/QUOTE]

Of course.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;414679]Note also that these are conditions that can lead to widespread war. 'Can', not 'will'.[/QUOTE]
Not only can these miseries lead to war, conflict can have a seasonal preference for warmth:
[URL="http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2011/apr/26/war-spring-taliban-afghanistan-fighting"]Why war has spring in its step[/URL]
"The timing of the Taliban prison escape reminds us that war and springtime have been linked in art for centuries"

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;414662]When are you going to stop prattling and learn some math? [/QUOTE]
We know this song, already, by heart. But you know, it doesn't pay. Prattling pays much better :razz:

Now you (general you) know why I posted in the beginning of this thread that I don't talk about the subject. I don't want to break any hearts here... :smile:

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman]Of course.[/QUOTE]
Bingo!

(edit: I really think some people here [U]have to[/U] read "Stand on Zanzibar").

[QUOTE=LaurV;414734](edit: I really think some people here [U]have to[/U] read "Stand on Zanzibar").[/QUOTE]

Is it available as an ebook? [wink]

Looking on Amazon I find it *IS* available as an Kindle ebook. Plus 95 versions of bits on atoms.

A completely tangential thought:

Perhaps we (read: Mersenne Forum) might form a sub-forum within which participants might give recommendations for books in separate threads, and why they are recommended?

The recommender would then continue to interact with the readers in their started thread.

Comments and/or thoughts?

[QUOTE=chalsall;414848]Is it available as an ebook? [wink]

Looking on Amazon I find it *IS* available as an Kindle ebook. Plus 95 versions of bits on atoms.

A completely tangential thought:

Perhaps we (read: Mersenne Forum) might form a sub-forum within which participants might give recommendations for books in separate threads, and why they are recommended?

The recommender would then continue to interact with the readers in their started thread.

Comments and/or thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Would this have a broader field than the SciFi thread, then? I am all for anything which encourages reading.

Covering the deserts with solar will also change the climate
 

[URL="http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/11/changing-the-earths-climate-by-covering-the-deserts-with-solar-panels/"]"But the effect is small compared to greenhouse warming."[/URL]


[QUOTE]Currently, the Earth's inhabitants are, on average, consuming about 17.5TeraWatts of power. It's estimated that an aggressive rollout of solar panels could generate at least 400TW, and possibly much, much more. But that would involve paving over a lot of the Earth's surface with solar panels, in many cases covering relatively reflective sand with dark black hardware. Could this have its own effects on the climate?


The answer turns out to be remarkably complex. That's in part because the panels don't simply absorb the energy of the light—a fraction of it gets converted to electricity and shipped elsewhere. A team of US and Chinese scientists decided to account for all of this and found out that massive solar installations would cause changes in the climate, but the changes would be minor compared to what we'd see from continued greenhouse gas emissions.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=kladner;414873]Would this have a broader field than the SciFi thread, then? I am all for anything which encourages reading.[/QUOTE]

That was my thinking.

Anyone who considers a book worth sponsoring would stand up and say something like "I recommend this book. These are the reasons... Please let me know if you have any questions and/or comments.

This can be anything from a fiction novel (including SciFi), a textbook, or a sacred text etc.

And, then, the sponsor of the book would answer any questions raised, or moderate those answering.

Perhaps a dangerous experiment. But, then, pushing the envelope often results in progress.... :wink:

[QUOTE=kladner;414879]"But the effect is small compared to greenhouse warming."[/QUOTE]

A subtle but important point. Thank you for raising it.

A modern solar electrical panel is at best 20% efficient. But even assuming 100% efficiency, that energy is going to be moved somewhere else to do work. At the end of the day, almost all the solar energy absorbed is going to be released back into the system as heat.

Welcome to thermodynamics...

This is not necessarily a bad thing. Humans inhabit a relatively small landmass.

Even if we measurably change the "albedo" of Earth, it will probably be less impactfull than changing the Earth's ability to retain heat.

I could be wrong, of course....