[QUOTE=chalsall;473733]And an interesting fact: the friction coefficient of rubber on wet ice is almost zero. If you don't have the training, experience and kit, and you don't have to, don't drive in such conditions.[/QUOTE]Another interesting fact: if you only have two tyres, and rear-wheel drive at that, life becomes even more interesting in snow and/or on wet ice. And quite possibly markedly shorter.

Mike: you ever ridden a GoldWing through snow? Surprisingly, given the vast weight of the beast, roughly 1/2 ton fully fueled and with a rider on top, I found it rather easier than some of the other bikes I've had.

[QUOTE=xilman;473735]Another interesting fact: if you only have two tyres, and rear-wheel drive at that, life becomes even more interesting in snow and/or on wet ice. And quite possibly markedly shorter.

Mike: you ever ridden a GoldWing through snow? Surprisingly, given the vast weight of the beast, roughly 1/2 ton fully fueled and with a rider on top, I found it rather easier than some of the other bikes I've had.[/QUOTE]Just attach the side-car to your motorcycle and you will be in heaven !

Jacob

(It would imply you move those posts about snow ẗo the "Happy Me Thread" thread.)

[QUOTE=S485122;473743]Just attach the side-car to your motorcycle and you will be in heaven ![/QUOTE]

Yeah... Let's combine the worse attributes of over- and under- steer behaviour on front and rear wheel drive vehicles, and then put them on ice.

What could possibly go wrong? :wink:

[QUOTE=chalsall;473733]Yeah, it's very unusual. And because of this most UK drivers don't know how to drive in such conditions, nor have the appropriate kit.

I grew up in a land where we had to plug our cars in to prevent the radiators from freezing solid and the battery going dead, snow tires (sometimes with spikes) placed on our cars in October, always having snow chains ready, and sometimes having to dig our cars out of 50 cm or so of snow which had fallen overnight.

And an interesting fact: the friction coefficient of rubber on wet ice is almost zero. If you don't have the training, experience and kit, and you don't have to, don't drive in such conditions.[/QUOTE]

+1. If you don't have winter tires or chains, you have no business on ice.

And the ice doesn't even have to be wet: sometimes the heat of your tires is enough to melt the surface.

[QUOTE=chalsall;473744]Yeah... Let's combine the worse attributes of over- and under- steer behaviour on front and rear wheel drive vehicles, and then put them on ice.

What could possibly go wrong? :wink:[/QUOTE]You are very clearly not a cold-weather motorcyclist.

In Scandinavia and the Alpine regions there are two principal varieties of bikers. Those who give up over winter and those who fit a third wheel. Those who do neither are very much in a minority. That said, there is the infamous Elefantentreffen which takes place each winter in Europe. If you need a hint as to what it involves, consider the implications of the word "Hannibal".

I've no real idea what North American bikers do when the weather turns a bit iffy.

[QUOTE=Mark Rose;473748]If you don't have winter tires or chains, you have no business on ice.[/QUOTE]

Or, experience.

I took my girlfriend up to my birth town a few years ago, and after renting the car at the airport and coming down the very snowy hill I said "OK. I have to run an experiment. Please don't scream.

I then slammed on the brakes, and skidded. And I steered. And I learned how the car and the tires responded. (I almost ended up in the ditch. She screamed a lot.)

We told this story to another close couple of ours who took a similar visit to "The Great White North". He did the exact same thing as I did, and she also screamed.

[QUOTE=chalsall;473751]Or, experience.

I took my girlfriend up to my birth town a few years ago, and after renting the car at the airport and coming down the very snowy hill I said "OK. I have to run an experiment. Please don't scream.

I then slammed on the brakes, and skidded. And I steered. And I learned how the car and the tires responded. (I almost ended up in the ditch. She screamed a lot.)

We told this story to another close couple of ours who took a similar visit to "The Great White North". He did the exact same thing as I did, and she also screamed.[/QUOTE]

I do the same thing every winter. Minus the screaming. And I credit having a feel for my car with passing the moose test once.

[QUOTE=xilman;473749]I've no real idea what North American bikers do when the weather turns a bit iffy.[/QUOTE]

In northern Canada, when the lakes freeze over, we put spikes on our bikes and race across them at about 100 km/h.

The nice thing is when we wipe out we simply lay down for a while until we and the bike come to a rest (zero velocity). Then we get up and mount the bike, and then start all over again.

Canadians are a strange but simple people.

[QUOTE=Mark Rose;473757]And I credit having a feel for my car with passing the moose test once.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if this is a true story or not (probably not), but a friend of mine said that a friend of his was riding in a VW Bug, and hit a moose head on.

The moose died on the Bug, and they couldn't get out (the dead moose's legs prevented the doors from opening). So they had to drive to the next town for help.

The story ends with the drivers being charged as unlicensed hunters....

In the early 70s, I lived in SE Iowa. I had a pickup and delivery route of 300 up to 400 miles. The product was photofinishing from drug stores and proto-big-box stores. I had a lot of fun coming early onto empty parking lots, no bumper curbs, with fresh snow. I got a much better idea of how the company car responded by skidding and fishtailing and doing donuts in the snow.

[QUOTE=chalsall;473770]I'm not sure if this is a true story or not (probably not), but a friend of mine said that a friend of his was riding in a VW Bug, and hit a moose head on.

The moose died on the Bug, and they couldn't get out (the dead moose's legs prevented the doors from opening). So they had to drive to the next town for help.

The story ends with the drivers being charged as unlicensed hunters....[/QUOTE]

I bet you could drive a Geo Metro under a moose.